EnigmA Amiga Run 1995 November/EnigmA AMIGA RUN 02 (1995)(G.R. Edizioni)(IT)[!][issue 1995-11][Skylink CD].iso/earcd/docs/imlarc66.lha/IML_Sep66.txt

Internet Message Format | 1995-10-01 | 539KB

Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 00:25:05
Subject: Re: Imagine Tutorials
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 31 Aug 1995, Robert Buonincontro wrote:

>
>  I think it would be a great idea if users starting sharing Imagine
> Tutorial files. Users could create objects and release an archive with
> step by step instructions on creating the object from scratch. Everyone
> has a different approach at creating objects. Some are better then
> others. Would be nice to see how some real experts create certain type
> of objects.
>
> Anyone agree?
>
>           robert.buonincontro&canrem.com

I highly agree Robert. As I'm a beginner, I'm very enthusiastic about
this idea, probably because it'll be less "give" than "take" on my part,
at least for the beginning.

By the way, I'm selling my 3000 and buying a DX4/100 or P75, and was
wondering how much the IBM version of Imagine 3.0 or 3.3 is going for
now?  The Amiga 3.0 version was $309 in the latest Amazing Amiga if I
remember correctly.  Anybody know of a vendor for the PC version?  Thanks!

Damon
(soon to have a really neat home page :)


Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 02:06:00
Subject: Why have I been Un-subscribed !
From:    Andrew Herbert <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hey everyone, I'm not recieving the IML through my internet supplier,

What's the deal here ?!

I'm having to write messages through a BBS using Edit through DOS (arrghh !).
Can someone tell me how to re-apply or if the powers-that-be are reading this
please sort it out !

Anyway, I installed Windows 95 two days ago and I've got Imagine to the:

Imagine will not run under DPMI host (Windows Enhanced Mode)

Is there any way of turning DPMI off or has anyone successfully run Imagine
through it ?  BTW Beyond Imag and the Search Engine work through Win 95.

Bye Bye All

Herbert >> Author of Beyond Imagination <<
>> HTTP://uptown.turnpike.net/H/Herbert

.... The last thing I saw was this Big Blue Wave!
|
| Internet: [e-mail]
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Gated from RAYTECH BBS - free access raytracing support in the UK |
|------------------------- call [phone] modem - 24 hours ! |

Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 03:20:41
Subject: Re: Imagine Tutorials
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Robert, on Aug 31 you wrote:

>  I think it would be a great idea if users starting sharing Imagine
> Tutorial files. Users could create objects and release an archive with
> step by step instructions on creating the object from scratch. Everyone
> has a different approach at creating objects. Some are better then
> others. Would be nice to see how some real experts create certain type
> of objects.
>
> Anyone agree?

A while back someone posted a tutorial on making a Derallieur gear for a
bicycle. I found this very helpful when making my Pentax camera object with
all its' cog style zoom and focus rings. However, it is very time consuming
to document every procedure when building an object with any sought of
complexity. I prefer to collect all the little tips that appear here and
use them when developing a project, it's just a matter of finding the right
process. One thing I've always tried to push is the use of the Forms
Editor. I've nearly finished a Deep Space 9 type object, though the
similarity leaves a lot to be desired, and used the Forms Ed extensively
which made things very easy. The main pylons for example were done in the
Forms Ed, then I used Conform to Cylinder and Path to get the arch shape.

There are two basic things I have learned when modelling.
If possible, get a model of the object to work off, it makes getting the
proportions accurate very easy.
Make the object in small sections and piece them together as sub-projects.

-- Bob

Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 09:33:42
Subject: RE: Wish List
From:    [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 4:13 PM 8/30/95, Charles Blaquiere wrote:
>> From: Jeff Hanna <[e-mail]>
>>
>> Along with these text files I would like to see a command within Imagine
>> which will archive (via LHA or a user-chooseable compressor) the entire
>> project. This archive would retain all directories, textures, objects,
>> etc... necessary to recreate the project on a different machine.
>>
>> The current system of not knowing where textures, bitmaps, objects, etc..
>> should be located because of Imagine hard-coding the path to them into
>> the project file is impossible to manage. An archive command (like what
>> 3DStudio has) would clear this all up.

I would be happy with an Imagine-generated report listing all objects,
textures, bitmaps, etc. used on a specific project, along with the
pathnames that Imagine uses to find them.  With that I could generate
a script to round everything up for transfer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy, Mac, UNIX and Amiga specialist!            [e-mail]
 "The best laid plans of mice and men..."                 Seattle, Washington
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 11:48:12
Subject: Re: Geodesic dome
From:    Fernando D'Andrea <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Received: from email.sp.paramax.com by aton.inf.ufrgs.br (Mercury 1.1);
>     Thu, 31 Aug 95 13:09:58 +3
> Received: by email.sp.paramax.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>     id AA25054; Thu, 31 Aug 95 07:54:49 CDT
> Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
> Received: from linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us by email.sp.paramax.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>     id AA25050; Thu, 31 Aug 95 07:54:46 CDT
> Received: (from tstethem@localhost) by linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (8.6.12/8.6.9)
 id FAA16893; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:53:52 -0700
> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 05:53:52 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ted Stethem <[e-mail]>
> To: ImagineMailingList <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Geodesic dome
> In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
> Message-Id: <[e-mail]
>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> X-PMFLAGS: 34078848
>
>   Have you tried using Latticize for the struts? Try a very small number
> applied to your dome object and it will make it appear to be constructed
> of struts.
>   As for the dome object itself, I seem to remember a program called
> Polyhedra that produced the geometric solids needed. I remember it does
> have the Platonic solids but can't remember if it allowed for the
> 3-frequency or 5-frequency icosahedrons usually used for dome homes. The
> icosahedron based dome is probably the most common but there are a myriad
> of others including the dodecahedron, the rhombic triacontahedron, and
> combinations of the various polyhedra.
>   The spheres that 3D programs produce are not geodesic (not derived
> from the Platonic solids) so they aren't really accurate for this
> application, if accuracy is important.
>   I've built a few domes including a 15 foot diameter 3-frequency
> icosahedron hemisphere greenhouse and a 30-foot 5-frequency icosahedron
> 3/4 sphere house. Those were fun projects. Don't know if I'll ever get
> around to it but I always wanted to try a Spiral Bindu.
>
> On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Imagine Users Mailing List wrote:
>
> > >
> > > In a message dated 95-08-30 21:56:48 EDT, [e-mail] writes:
> > >
> > > >I'm trying to create, or locate, a Geodesic Dome object (A La Bucky Fulle
r)
> > > >basically, I want to play with modelling a dome home, but would like to
> > > avoid
> > > >having to manually calculate all the points and angles involved.  Any hel
p?
> > > >Joel
> > >
> > > Easy, cut a sphere in half.  The number of polygons in your sphere shape w
ill
> > > make it look more or less geodesic.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Funny - I have the same requirement (i.e. use a 3D Modelling package to mode
l
> > a dome home).  The tricky thing about just cutting a sphere in half is that
it
> > doesn't necessary give you the strut effect you're looking for.  I'm trying
> > to address this in Caligari Truespace, but would appreciate any assistance
> > someone might be able to give to use Imagine to achieve the same result.
> >
> > Basically, my approach consists of painting each FACE transparent, while
> > painting the vertices opaque... can this same thing be done in Imagine?
> > Admittedly, I prefer to complete the task in Truespace, but .. this is an
> > Imagine mailing list after all.
> >
> > BTW, there is a program on the 'net somewhere that can be used to generate
> > geodesic shapes for rendering with Renderman.  I believe it's written in C,

> > so if I can find it I'll try my hand at porting it to DOS/Windows.  I have
> > a big interest in geodesic geometry...
> >
> >
> > j.
> >
> > Jay Vaughan
> > [e-mail]
> >
> >
>
Very simple: make a sphere. Delete all points bellow the half. You
will get an hemisphere. After, delete all FACES, and you will get the
structure of the dome. The trouble is that imagine cannot render only
edges, so, try to extrude, or even sweep it (MOLD requester in 2.0)
just enough to create tiny faces:
   _________
  /         \   This is the dome edges only and its axis...
 /           \
|      *      |

   _________
  //        \\  The same one, after a LITTLE extrusion...
 //          \\
||      *     ||

   ==========
  //        \\   After this, make it extrude again a bit, but in
 //          \\  another way. To do this, rotate the axis to the
||            || proper position.

It is a bit hard to explain what is my idea, but I hope to help. You
will need to extrude it in several directions, so, you can try to
extrude the structure using a SMALL closed path, circular. First use
it horizontally, and after, use the same close path vertically. It
should transform the edges in tubes, but will generate several
superfluous faces.
    The length of the extrusion will depend from  the size of the
hemispheric structure. The larger the length gets, larger will be the
diameter of the tubes generated.

    Sorry the poor English. Hope that helps.

    Fernando D'Andrea. [e-mail]

    Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul, Porto Alegre, Brasil.








*********************************
Fernando Pena D'Andrea.
E-Mail: [e-mail]
*********************************

Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 15:19:50
Subject: 040 Optimisations
From:    [e-mail] (Steve Gardiner)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ted Stetham wrote:
>
>  The rumor is that they use a hacked-up Manx C compiler (never had '040
>compiler capability) and aren't
>willing/able to move to another compiler system. Since SAS/C is the only
>remaining '040 compiler system left for the Amiga, I wouldn't hold my
>breath for Impulse to switch development tools, especially this late in
>the game. Guess we have to be happy that they are still developing for
>the Amiga at all.
>

Ted,
Mike Halvorson mailed me a while ago 'cos I asked him directly about this and
he said that they use the latest tools for the job. From reading the texture
and object format docs for Imagine 3.0, Scott Kirvan says that they were com-
piled using SAS/C 6.50, so I think Mike H. is telling us the truth and we are
doing Impulse a diservice by reviving the rumour.

Still, I agree that there should be an '040 specific version of Imagine and the
textures... who wants a integer version anyway ??

Cheers
--
  +-----------------==============+================-----------------+
  |  Steve Gardiner               | Paying my debt to society...    |
  |  [e-mail]     | Working in Business Publishing !|
  +-----------------==============+================-----------------+

Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 15:23:05
Subject: Panther resurrected!
From:    Martin Keitel <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks again for everybody who offered their help with my corrupted
Panther object.
I've managed to rescue it, although I finally did have to figure out the
way to do it myself. Anyway the instructions I received guided me to the
right direction.

So, if you ever get a "Bad chunk size"-error when loading a states object
(or the file is corrupted due to disk error, or something else), here's
the way to get back the states data.
First, load the object into Imagine 2.0 (or PixelPro, Vertex etc.) and
save it as a new file. If this can't be done, there might be another way
to recover the shape and grouping.

In my case Imagine2.0 loaded the shape and the bone axis' - not the
attributes (except color and maybe specularity), subgroups, bone
definitions or states.
I remembered what states I had in the walking object (WALK1, WALK1B,
WALK2 etc.), but even if I hadn't remembered, they could be easilly found
with FileX (thanks Joop). I made a 'dummy' state to the new object called
WALK1 (jus twisted a leg or too) and duplicated it as many times as
needed, naming the copies WALK1B, WALK2 and so on.
Then I went to FileX and loaded both object files in it (the original
corrupted file and the new one with the shape, grouping and the dummy
states). I used FileX's Find-function to spot each part, where there was
the text WALK1 and then marked a section covering all the states (after
the states data is the bones data, but this I didn't need) and copied it
into the corresponding location in the new file.
The states data is scattered all over the file, so I had to do this very
many times (I didn't count to the end but at least some 70 or 80 times),
but it was 'just' routine. Anyway, all the states were correct after this
procedure.

So, I had to remake the subgroups, textures (though I had the brushmap
files of course) and bone definitions to the default state. These took
not more than some half an hour. Luckily I did not have bones for each
joint in each finger, like I have in my human object :-)

I sent the object to couple of fellows, that helped me the most. Possibly
I'll place it in the Aminet, when I'm quite pleased with it.
Anyone who want's to see an image of the cat, can take a look at my home
page in

http://www.ppoy.fi/~mk-tel

All the text is for the time being in Finnish only. Click the
'Animaatio'-linktext to see my animation page. There are many other
images too in the various pages, made with Imagine and DeluxePaint. And if
you're interested
in stereoscopy, there are some stereograms under the link 'Steroskopia'
(or something like that). I'll translate the text to english when I have
the time and energy.

If you have any comments, e-mail me. I'm still not on the list (I'll send
a new subscription).

That's all folks!

Marty K

Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 18:27:30
Subject: Re: '040 Optimizations
From:    [e-mail] (The Prophet)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>I've done a comparison of Essence 2 textures on an '040 and the optimised
>versions are at least 30% faster. A substantial increase when applying
>multiple textures.
>
>-- Bob

Add that speed increase to what Imagine could be like if it were compiler
optimized for 040 & 060 and we'd be pleased with the speed.  Well, never
actually pleased because it could never be fast enough but how about happier.

Jaeson K.
 ____            ____            _           _
( |  \          ( /  \          ( )       _ / )
 )|   )_   __    /   /_   _  __  /   __  ( X_)
( |  /~ \ /\_)  /---~/ ) / )/  )/~\ /\_)  / _
 )ll/  l/ \__ (/   (/   (_//__//  / \__  (___)
(____________)        (___/        (___)

Jaeson Koszarsky                  Amiga 3000+
----------------                  -----------
[e-mail]              68040/30Mhz
[e-mail]                24Megs-1GIG
[e-mail]            OS3.1

Date:    Friday, 01 September 1995 20:28:29
Subject: RE: Wish List
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Kent Kalnasy wrote:

>
> I would be happy with an Imagine-generated report listing all objects,
> textures, bitmaps, etc. used on a specific project, along with the
> pathnames that Imagine uses to find them.  With that I could generate
> a script to round everything up for transfer.
>

For the Amiga, which I see below that you use =^), there is a package by
Ian Smith, who also frequents this list, called IIUtilities. Included is
an ARexx script to read the staging file and tell you exactly what
brushmaps, textures, objects, etc., and the total # of points, edges, faces,
and pixels in all brushmaps applied. To get an ASCII "printout," you
could type `rx ShowStage Imagine:Projects/MyProject.imp/staging >ram:
MyProjectList.txt'. Pretty handy. You could include this in the readme
file of any projects you upload to AmiNet or elsewhere.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>  Kent Kalnasy, Mac, UNIX and Amiga specialist!            [e-mail]
>  "The best laid plans of mice and men..."                 Seattle, Washington
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 00:37:05
Subject: Re: Wish List
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-08-31 18:52:37 EDT, you write:

>A lot of users keep programs (imagine) on one partition, and data on another
>(objects etc), to facilitate easy backups, among other things. What we need
>is
>a Project mover, which interrogates a staging file and shifts everthing as
>needed, say into one directory, then modifies the scene file and objects
>in it to reflect the new path. Any keen PD writers out there??

You know something like that would be an excellent idea.  I'm not sure if
anyone is bothering to write for the Amiga anymore (please I loved my Amiga's
but it was time to move on) but with the windoze version of Imagine on the
horizon I think we may see more utilities being pumped out for the program.
 I'd like to hope so anyway.  I read on CIS the other day Mike Halvorson
saying to someone that PC upgrades to 4.0 outnumbered Amiga upgrades
something like 20:1 even though there are many more Amiga Imagine user's.  I
suspect this could be one of the reasons that Impulse might be reluctant to
pump anymore effort into what is probably a dead platform.



Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 00:37:05
Subject: Re: Geodesic Dome
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-08-31 20:56:26 EDT, you write:

>I'm interested in modelling a dome home, accurately, with the goal of
>creating an accurate model of a potential construction project.  Angles
>and sizes of the pentagonal/hexagonal components would be critical.
>Somewhere in the back of one of my filing cabinets I have a complete
>construction manual for (I think) an Oregon Dome 3/5 dome.  I'm gonna
>dig it out and work this out the hard way.  Of course, that's usually

Should you have access to AcadR13 (and Designer would be really nice here as
well) then you can work with the solids modeler and accuaratly create exactly
what you are looking to do then exporting to 3ds format utilizing new object
for each layer.  There is a shareware program that will then bring the 3ds
objects into Imagine for texturing and rendering written by Andrey Zmievskiy.
 If your work requires accurate detailing this is an excellent route and I
have utilized it.  You of course would have to do this quite often as AcadR13
and for that matter Designer are not cheap.  They are however for certain
modeling tasks hands down better than Imagine.  For everyone on the list, I
repeat "for certain tasks" as I would choose Imagines modeler if I were
restricted to just one.

Bob..........

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 00:37:08
Subject: Re: CD-Blues
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-01 02:56:53 EDT, you write:

>My question is...since Win95 supposedly lifted that 8 character
>limitation will I be able to have full use of my CEE DEE,
>even If I was to run Imagine from it's (Win95) dos? ... did
>anybody have the same situation?

Win"95" lifts the filename restriction only if working with win95 compliant
software.  I.E. older software must still use the 8x3 limitation.  There is a
program out there that claims to work around this for all software but I have
not seen any reviews of it.

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 00:41:41
Subject: Re: Wish List
From:    Torgeir Holm <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 31-Aug-95 12:20:23, cjo wrote:

>What I do is to have the "projects"-, "objects"- and "textures"-directories
>(and all other Imagine related directories) in the directory where Imagine
>is located. Then all filerequests start from that directory, for example
>"projects/yourname.imp/objects/ball" to get the object called "ball".
>The blacky-way ;) would be "Imagine:projects/yourname.imp/objects/ball".

The problem with this, for me, is that I don't like putting the objects inside
the project dir. I might want to use the object for another project, and
don't want to make multiple copies. I have an assign to "objs:", which is
located on a different partition from Imagine. I have all my executable
programs on one partition, and all the Data they produce goes to another.

All the projects, textures, maps, efects, and stuff is placed on the same
partition as the objects as well. I use toolmanager to set the path to this
partition, so the requester still pops up there..

Why do I do it this way? Who knows... I guess it was practical when I only had
an 80MB and a 120 disk way back when I started using Imagine on my (then new)
4000.

Ok, enough mindless babble


Torge!r

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 01:22:01
Subject: Re: CD-Blues
From:    Paul Townend <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


 -=> Quoting [e-mail] to All <=-


 au> I haven't got Win95 ... well not yet ... but I purchased this CD
 au> called Weird Science and it has about 2500 objects for Imagine
 au> and some nifty other things.  Now before I bought it I knew it
 au> was written for the Amiga, however the format of the disk is
 au> ISO 3990 (or is it 6990)...anyway it was supposed to be
 au> readable by the PC also.  On trying so only about 60%of the
 au> objects were readable...yesss its that 8 character limitation
 au> on the PC.  Damn]]]...

 au> My question is...since Win95 supposedly lifted that 8 character
 au> limitation will I be able to have full use of my CEE DEE,
 au> even If I was to run Imagine from it's (Win95) dos? ... did
 au> anybody have the same situation?

     I have a PC and borrowed the same CD from an Amiga mate. All
     names with more than 8 characters show up with the squiggly line
     in them. They still load OK here though. Windows 95 does support
     long filenames, however this is no relief to Your problem as
     it only works while the GUI is running.
     Imagine still has to run from dos mode only - until we get the windows
     version that is.

 au> Thank you.

     You're quite welcome.



.... Escom are to computing what "Hello" magazine is to engrossing text.
|
| Internet: [e-mail]
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Gated from RAYTECH BBS - free access raytracing support in the UK |
|------------------------- call [phone] modem - 24 hours ! |

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 01:49:09
Subject: CD-ROM's
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>ml> 3D STUDIO =FA19.99
>ml>=20
>ml> TEXTURES =FA39.99
>
>Do you own these CD-Roms or is the description you gave from the
>ad?
>
>If you own the CD-Roms, could you perhaps send me one of the
>index pictures from the Textures-CD as JPEG?
>
>Greetings,
>       Hendrik

Sorry, Hendrik.
It's the description from the ads.  I was just informing you guys.
And hopping that someone would purchase either one, and tell
if there are any good.
Are you listening guys. Please tell us if it's any good.
bye Mikael



Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 03:59:59
Subject: A fuse
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi.

I'm trying to do a simple animation of a burning fuse.  I'm using the grow
effect to make the fuse from a disk, then I make a separate disk as a
particle source using rain.  The particle disk follows the fuse object path
to simulate sparks.  If I 'reverse time' the grow so the fuse shrinks, is
there any way to 'reverse time' the motion of the particle object along the
path?  I can't seem to get it to work.

If I don't use any reverse timing, I can make it work exactly how I want it
too in the stage editor by making the animation in reverse: use 60,1,-1 as
the 'make animation' frame parameters.  Is there any way to do the same thing
in the project editor?  No frames will select if I use 60,1,-1 as the range
for the subproject.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Alan.

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 04:51:00
Subject: Picasso & 256 Colors?
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


With Imagine 3.3 I just realized that I could easily shift my screen
resolution to 800 x 600 via Imagine preferences and my Picasso.
Pretty cool!

I also tried to get 256 colors, but couldn't turn that trick. Earlier,
Cedric Chang had posted that he had been able to do so via
Cybergraphics on a Piccolo, which requires OS 3.1.

Has anyone pulled this off with a Picasso, and preferably w/o
switching to Cybergraphics? I'm debating whether to upgrade to 3.1.

Also, is there a version of the Picasso software more recent than
2.51?

Floater

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 05:39:50
Subject: Re: CD-Blues
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-01 20:26:59 EDT, [e-mail] writes:

>Win"95" lifts the filename restriction only if working with win95 compliant
>software.  I.E. older software must still use the 8x3 limitation.  There is
a
>program out there that claims to work around this for all software but I
have
>not seen any reviews of it.

Actuall you can name any file names as long as you want in Win95, with the
Explorer, or what used to be filemanager.  However, when opening a long file
name under older 16bit apps.  The files are truncated.

s.g.

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 05:44:45
Subject: Re: Wish List
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is one I know has been wished for before but would be very very useful:

When you go to delete an object a message could ask you if you want to delete
from disk, that way you could get rid of the multiple objects laying around
on your disk that you swear you are going to clean out someday.

Stephen.

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 08:11:57
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Hi.
>
>I'm trying to do a simple animation of a burning fuse.  I'm using the grow
>effect to make the fuse from a disk, then I make a separate disk as a
>particle source using rain.  The particle disk follows the fuse object path
>to simulate sparks.  If I 'reverse time' the grow so the fuse shrinks, is
>there any way to 'reverse time' the motion of the particle object along the
>path?  I can't seem to get it to work.
>
>If I don't use any reverse timing, I can make it work exactly how I want it
>too in the stage editor by making the animation in reverse: use 60,1,-1 as
>the 'make animation' frame parameters.  Is there any way to do the same thing
>in the project editor?  No frames will select if I use 60,1,-1 as the range
>for the subproject.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Alan.
>
Create a movie pick list (it's just a text file) using a good editor of some
sort,
which will let you reverse a selection. Render forwards, animation backwards, if

you see what I mean.


Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 08:15:27
Subject: Re: Why have I been Un-subscribed !
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>Hey everyone, I'm not recieving the IML through my internet supplier,
>
>What's the deal here ?!
>
>I'm having to write messages through a BBS using Edit through DOS (arrghh !).
>Can someone tell me how to re-apply or if the powers-that-be are reading this
>please sort it out !
>
>Anyway, I installed Windows 95 two days ago and I've got Imagine to the:
>
>Imagine will not run under DPMI host (Windows Enhanced Mode)
>
>Is there any way of turning DPMI off or has anyone successfully run Imagine
>through it ?  BTW Beyond Imag and the Search Engine work through Win 95.

It will run from Win95 - only as a Dos only program or whatever, i.e. it
will reboot and won't multitask. Gotta love PC's ...


Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 08:52:35
Subject: '040 optimising vs Pentium
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll start a new thread for this.

I finally recieved my PC Imagine cross grade and got over to my friends
Pentium 90.
Wheee ...

A scene of 7 swaying sphere, non CSG, with different Imagine textures on
each (in
light of the '040 discussion I should have tried Essence. (Which I don't
have for
PC (Duh - stick to the topic, Bill))) over a raindrop reflective plane. O.K so
no points for Imagination. I was in a hurry at the time. Anyway, read 'em and
weep :

Amiga 4000, '040 40MHz  Lores Overscan          5m31s
Pentium 90,             Lores Overscan          1m02s
                        Hires Lace Overscan     2m05s

Wow. What an eye-opener. Pentium here I come!


Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 09:19:52
Subject: Re: Picasso & 256 Colors?
From:    Bob Pleatman <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Sat, 2 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> With Imagine 3.3 I just realized that I could easily shift my screen
> resolution to 800 x 600 via Imagine preferences and my Picasso.
> Pretty cool!
>
> I also tried to get 256 colors, but couldn't turn that trick. Earlier,
> Cedric Chang had posted that he had been able to do so via
> Cybergraphics on a Piccolo, which requires OS 3.1.
>
> Has anyone pulled this off with a Picasso, and preferably w/o
> switching to Cybergraphics? I'm debating whether to upgrade to 3.1.
>
> Also, is there a version of the Picasso software more recent than
> 2.51?
>
> Floater
>

I'm using the cv64 board with cybergraphics.  I have promoted the imagine
screens to 776x600 in 256 colors. When I got 3.0 it crashed all the time
whenever it ended doing a render.  I upgraded to 3.3 and have not had one
crash yet. Not a single one.  I am very happy as far as that goes.  The
only thing I have seen that does not work as it does in the amiga modes,
at least as far as I have noticed are when objects need to be redrawn in
the detail editor, they do not. Hitting redraw corrects this problem.

You may want to give the cybergraphic stuff a try.

bob

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 11:13:05
Subject: Re: CD-Blues
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

au> limitation will I be able to have full use of my CEE DEE,
 au> even If I was to run Imagine from it's (Win95) dos? ... did
 au> anybody have the same situation?

 Paul>    I have a PC and borrowed the same CD from an Amiga mate. All
 Paul>     names with more than 8 characters show up with the squiggly line
 Paul>     in them. They still load OK here though. Windows 95 does support
 Paul>     long filenames, however this is no relief to Your problem as
 Paul>     it only works while the GUI is running.
 Paul>     Imagine still has to run from dos mode only - until we get the
windows
 Paul>     version that is.

 au> Thank you.

But you can copy the objects to the hard disk and rename them to 8.3
filenames with win95. So It may alleviate the problem if not elliminate it.

Falko

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 14:45:42
Subject: Re: Picasso & 256 Colors?
From:    Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[e-mail] wrote:
> With Imagine 3.3 I just realized that I could easily shift my screen
> resolution to 800 x 600 via Imagine preferences and my Picasso.
> Pretty cool!

Hmm, I was under the impression that they only supported the Retina and not
the Picasso or any other board.  If they actually to support the Picasso II
then I wish Impulse  had not just talked only about the Retina... :-7

> Also, is there a version of the Picasso software more recent than
> 2.51?

2.51 is the last *official* release from Village Tronic; the programmers,
in particular Frank Mariak (who is now workiing for the CyberVision folks)
continued to upgrade the software on his own: 2.56 is the latest of these
inofficial releases and you can find it on "terrapin-station.umd.edu" via
anonymous ftp in "monit256.lha"

 |._.|_   Udo Schuermann             "The future's not what it used to be!"
 |(:)| )  [e-mail]                  -- Narn Ambassador G'Kar
 |_:_|/   http://www.wam.umd.edu/~walrus/        Babylon 5, "The Long Dark"

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 15:00:46
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Sat, 2 Sep 1995, Bill Boyce wrote:

> Create a movie pick list (it's just a text file) using a good editor of some
> sort,
> which will let you reverse a selection. Render forwards, animation backwards,
if
> you see what I mean.
>
>

I don't think this will work. If you view a video of a person walking in
reverse, that is, a normal video played in reverse, the motion doesn't
look realistic. Weight is shifted the wrong way, etc. If you render a
particle animation backwards, all the sparks from the fuse will fly INTO
the end of the fuse instead of out of it. Am I missing something?

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Saturday, 02 September 1995 21:19:48
Subject: Radiosity
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone interested, and with FTP and .TGA image capability, POV-Ray 3.0,
still under development, includes a radiosity option.  There is a sample
with/without image pair, 24 bit .tga images, at the following:
ftp.povray.org/pub/povray3-preview/radtest.zip
The radiosity version is impressive, amazingly realistic.  I'm going to
keep my eye on that directory, I'm interested in seeing the extent of
POV-Ray 3's capabilities.
Joel

Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 03:42:08
Subject: Re: Wish List
From:    [e-mail] (Gregory Helleren)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> Ken Worley wrote
> >>  I thought of something I would like to see in a future version of
> >> Imagine. I would like a text file that you could save with a project
> >> file. It would have a menu item that would bring up a simple text editor
> >> that you could jot down notes about any aspect of a project. I often work
> >> on something for a while then come back to it later  and it would be nice
> >> to have notes about what I was doing saved with the projects file.

> > Gregg Helleren wrote
> >You mean like pressing <ALT>+<F1> and having an editor window popup? Guess
> >what, that's what I already do! It would, however, be nice if Imagine had
> >a rexx interface so I could put such a feature on the menu, or on a button.
> >I'm not too keen on the idea of providing (and paying for) features in a
> >product that are already available and accessible in existing utilities.

> John Prusinski wrote
> Unless I'm mistaken, I believe what is needed here (i.e., what I would want
> :>)) is a text file which is attached by internal code to the Imagine
> project in question.  In my case at least, saving notes in an external
> editor is an invitation to (months later) spending hours looking for where I
> saved (and what I called) the associated text file so as to avoid spending
> hours trying to figure out what I was doing in the project itself!  Unless
> my comments are loaded automatically with the Imagine project, I might as
> well write them down on Post-It notes and stick them to my head...

It might sound a tad straightforward, but why not store the text file
in the relevant project directory? I have "docs" directories just about
everywhere - for objects, textures, projects etc. I never have a
problem subsequently locating any notes that I need. For example, if I have
an object of a teddy bear (I don't BTW) in the directory
"projects:teddy.imp/objects/"
I might have some notes about the object in
"projects:teddy.imp/objects/docs/"
and notes about the project in which I use the teddy in
"projects:teddy.imp/docs"

Creating these docs directories really requires very little effort. Of
course it would be nice if imagine did it for me, or if I could tell
imagine (via rexx) to do it for me :)

Cheese
Gregg
--
+------------------------------------------///\/\/\_Amiga Technologies_/\/\+
  Gregory Helleren      AMIGA is REBORN  /// Lecturer Information Technology
  Developer - LaseRage                  ///  SEMC TAFE Western Australia
  Ferndale W.A. Australia  ___/\___/\\\///   [e-mail]
  CBMNET:[e-mail]\XX/    [e-mail]
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+



Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 07:02:42
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
>On Sat, 2 Sep 1995, Bill Boyce wrote:
>
>> Create a movie pick list (it's just a text file) using a good editor of some
>> sort,
>> which will let you reverse a selection. Render forwards, animation
backwards, if
>> you see what I mean.
>>
>>
>
>I don't think this will work. If you view a video of a person walking in
>reverse, that is, a normal video played in reverse, the motion doesn't
>look realistic. Weight is shifted the wrong way, etc. If you render a
>particle animation backwards, all the sparks from the fuse will fly INTO
>the end of the fuse instead of out of it. Am I missing something?
>
>See ya,
>     Roger

Blush

Bill


Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 09:35:26
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    "needs a finger name." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Sat, 2 Sep 1995, Roger Straub wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 2 Sep 1995, Bill Boyce wrote:
>
> > Create a movie pick list (it's just a text file) using a good editor of some

> > sort,
> > which will let you reverse a selection. Render forwards, animation backwards
, if
> > you see what I mean.
> >
> >
>
> I don't think this will work. If you view a video of a person walking in
> reverse, that is, a normal video played in reverse, the motion doesn't
> look realistic. Weight is shifted the wrong way, etc. If you render a
> particle animation backwards, all the sparks from the fuse will fly INTO
> the end of the fuse instead of out of it. Am I missing something?
>
> See ya,
>     Roger
>
This is how I would make a fuse.

1. Use grow to increase the area of the fust that has burnt.

2. Use reverse grow to soften the unburnt fuse.  I am not sure about
   reverse grow.

3. Have the sparks travel along a path as the fuse burns.  Use the same
path that use used to define the grow effects.

Jim Rix

Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 12:52:40
Subject: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    Old_Man <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have 3.3 installed in a Pentium75 and a Amiga 3000. The Pentium has 8
megs (5 plus when Imagine is running). The Amiga has 10 megs. The Preview
section of Texture etc. is ghosted out on both machines, I suspect memory
but how much do you need?. A notice that "requested screen mode not
available................is probably a clue but after 3 days of fooling
with Preferences I admit defeat. Any ideas gratefully and humbly accepted.

Bill


Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 14:57:07
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>>I don't think this will work. If you view a video of a person walking in
>>reverse, that is, a normal video played in reverse, the motion doesn't
>>look realistic. Weight is shifted the wrong way, etc. If you render a
>>particle animation backwards, all the sparks from the fuse will fly INTO
>>the end of the fuse instead of out of it. Am I missing something?
>>
>>See ya,
>>    Roger

It WILL work if the particles are done with 'reverse timing' on -- which will
make the particles fly INTO the fuse, which results in the correct motion
(sparks emitting) when the animation is reversed.  But how do you reverse the
animation?  I'd like to generate a FLC, and I can't seem to find any
reference to the movie pick list in the docs.

Alan.




Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 15:28:51
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    [e-mail] (Jeff Hanna)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> I have 3.3 installed in a Pentium75 and a Amiga 3000. The Pentium has 8
> megs (5 plus when Imagine is running). The Amiga has 10 megs. The Preview
> section of Texture etc. is ghosted out on both machines, I suspect memory
> but how much do you need?. A notice that "requested screen mode not
> available................is probably a clue but after 3 days of fooling
> with Preferences I admit defeat. Any ideas gratefully and humbly accepted.



It's not a memory problem...at least not on your Amiga. 3.3 will not show you
the texture preview unless you have a 256 color (or greater) screen. Obviously
to do this on your 3000 you will need to purchase a 3rd party graphics board,
like the Retina or CyberVision.

I don't know what the problem is on the PC, unless you are running in a 16 color

VGA mode instead of a 256 color one...


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeff Hanna                    |  "Albert Einstein nailed space-time, but the
 [e-mail]           |   Wild Thing had him stumped." -Thomas Dolby
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 17:06:12
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    Bush Doktor <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 3 Sep 1995, Jeff Hanna wrote:

> It's not a memory problem...at least not on your Amiga. 3.3 will not show you
> the texture preview unless you have a 256 color (or greater) screen. Obviously

> to do this on your 3000 you will need to purchase a 3rd party graphics board,
> like the Retina or CyberVision.

   Would a Firecracker board work also?



Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 19:00:27
Subject: Re:Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bill writes:
>The Preview section of Texture etc. is ghosted out on both machines.  I
>suspect memory but how much do you need?

I don't think memory is the problem.  I can't comment on the Amiga, since
mu recently deceased A500 only did 16 colors, but my PC runs it just fine.
In Preferences I just set to true the "Use 620x480 and 256 colors if
available." (that's how I remember the Prefs line, actual wording may be
slightly different.).

Hope this helps,
Greg Denby

Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 23:45:48
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    [e-mail] (Jeff Hanna)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings, Bush.

> On Sun, 3 Sep 1995, Jeff Hanna wrote:
>
> > It's not a memory problem...at least not on your Amiga. 3.3 will not show yo
u
> > the texture preview unless you have a 256 color (or greater) screen. Obvious
ly
> > to do this on your 3000 you will need to purchase a 3rd party graphics board
,
> > like the Retina or CyberVision.
>
>    Would a Firecracker board work also?


The description text for the RTNA and REMU flags in the Preferences editor make
mention of the Firecracker and Opal boards, so I would assume so. Wouldn't hurt
to try :)

I would HOPE the Firecracker board would be supported, since Impules made the
dang thing!


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeff Hanna                    |  "Albert Einstein nailed space-time, but the
 [e-mail]           |   Wild Thing had him stumped." -Thomas Dolby
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 23:48:04
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    [e-mail] (Jeff Hanna)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>  first you need to be able to run the amiga in 256 colours -i think that
> unless you have a GFX card then this is not possible on the 3000 (though
> with WB3.1 you might be able to)

OS3.1 or not, you can NOT get an Amiga 3000 (or any OCS/ECS Amiga) to display
8bit or higher color without the use of a 3rd party GFX card.

(Notice I say 8bit and not 256, since OCS/ECS Amigas can do 6bit HAM displays
of 4096 colors).

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeff Hanna                    |  "Albert Einstein nailed space-time, but the
 [e-mail]           |   Wild Thing had him stumped." -Thomas Dolby
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:    Sunday, 03 September 1995 23:57:35
Subject: Re: Geodesic Dome
From:    Ted Stethem <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  This subject really sparked some long-buried interests but I am in the
middle of several other things right now, so I can't thoroughly
investigate a completely satisfactory method of producing the proper
Geodesic geometries you need.
  But, I was fiddling around and I found a partially workable method to
get at least a 4-frequency icosahedron hemisphere.
  Add a Primitive Disk, any diameter, with 5 sections. This makes a
Pentagon. Pick all the faces, fracture twice. This gives you the
4-frequency. Now, at this point I started having difficulties, trying to
get it to a sperical shape. One method that almost works is to start
from the outside edge, pick all the edges that form the circumference,
and apply the Smooth Edge with the 3rd-order polynomial. This turns it
almost into a circle. Do this succesively until you reach the inner-most
pentagon (leave that a pentagon). Go into Magnetism setup, pick a radius
of influence large enough to encompass the entire diameter, pick 0
percent at maximum radius and pick Dome magnetism. Go into Drag Points,
pick the center point, use the Shift Key-Hold Point trick, and pull the
plane out into a dome. This only approximates a Geodesic dome but looks
pretty close to the actual thing.
  The real solution would be to develop a nice little program to produce
the proper shapes. Would be a really fun, interesting project but it's
not something I can do now. Anyone else?


On Thu, 31 Aug 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> Ted Stethem is the only person who picked up the part I didn't clarify:
> I'm interested in modelling a dome home, accurately, with the goal of
> creating an accurate model of a potential construction project.  Angles
> and sizes of the pentagonal/hexagonal components would be critical.
> Somewhere in the back of one of my filing cabinets I have a complete
> construction manual for (I think) an Oregon Dome 3/5 dome.  I'm gonna
> dig it out and work this out the hard way.  Of course, that's usually
> the most effective approach anyway, but I hoped to find a shortcut.
> Thanks for the suggestions, everybody.
> Joel
>

Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 01:03:30
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    Duncan <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Old_Man,

> I have 3.3 installed in a Pentium75 and a Amiga 3000. The Pentium has 8
> megs (5 plus when Imagine is running). The Amiga has 10 megs. The Preview
> section of Texture etc. is ghosted out on both machines, I suspect memory
> but how much do you need?. A notice that "requested screen mode not
> available................is probably a clue but after 3 days of fooling
> with Preferences I admit defeat. Any ideas gratefully and humbly accepted.

 i dont know about the pentium but

 first you need to be able to run the amiga in 256 colours -i think that
unless you have a GFX card then this is not possible on the 3000 (though
with WB3.1 you might be able to) once you get 256 clour display there is
an option in the imagine prefs editor that needs to be turned to T
and its something like 'run Imagine in 256 mode' save and quit restart

 Duncan
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 \\                           [e-mail]                      \\
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 02:24:09
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    Paul Thompson <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This is how I would make a fuse.
>
> 1. Use grow to increase the area of the fust that has burnt.
>
> 2. Use reverse grow to soften the unburnt fuse.  I am not sure about
>    reverse grow.
>
> 3. Have the sparks travel along a path as the fuse burns.  Use the same
> path that use used to define the grow effects.

Unfortunately, having the sparks travel along the path causes the ones
that are in the air to also follow the path, resulting in a lousy effect.

An alternate method, if I remember correctly, is to "un-grow" the fuse,
using the reverse timing for the grow effect(?).  Also, create a smaller
disk and extrude it along the path.  Put the axis at the very beginning
of the path, then use the Particle FX to explode this "inner fuse".  Be
sure to turn on DELAY; thus, the inner fuse will explode from one end to
the other.  NOTE: This doesn't work at all for a fuse that meanders, only
for straight and relatively straight fuses :^(

Paul


Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 06:43:06
Subject: Videos
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has Imagine ever been used in any MAJOR productions, like Lightwave has?
I was also wondering why Imagine does not get much media coverage? Are
there any videos out there showing off Imagine's abilities? such as an
animation video?

                           E-Mail: [e-mail]



Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 08:36:25
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-03 12:57:16 EDT, [e-mail] (Old_Man)
writes:

>I have 3.3 installed in a Pentium75 and a Amiga 3000. The Pentium has 8
megs (5 plus when Imagine is running). The Amiga has 10 megs. The Preview
section of Texture etc. is ghosted out on both machines, I suspect memory
but how much do you need?. A notice that "requested screen mode not
available................is probably a clue but after 3 days of fooling
with Preferences I admit defeat. Any ideas gratefully and humbly accepted.



Your video card must not be vesa compatible.  You can download univesa from
many online services and this may solve your problem.  Not with your Amiga
though.

s.g.

Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 11:08:00
Subject: Povray preview address...
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, the address for the povray preview is
  ftp.povray.org/pub/povray/povray3-preview
There are several files (I'm currently dl'ing the 356k radtest.zip...
should be here in 8 minutes).  There is also a www address,
  http://www.povray.org/
\KenR
(Yah, but what are the render times?)

Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 12:53:19
Subject: Address changed...
From:    [e-mail] (Milan Polle)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all,
       -
I am back after an address change and a holiday. I hope the change of address

didn't cause to many bounces, my account was gone without a warning, so
I couldn't send the new address to the list.
My new address is [e-mail]
If anybody has sent me something that bounced back, please send it again.


Has there been some interesting news about imagine, or some new textures
sent over the list? Please let me know. Is imagine3.3 already there?
If so, what are the new features? Is the bumpmapping bug finally removed?


       -
Glad to be back (oh yeah, I didn't do any (texture)programming during my
holiday as it was way too hot over here to be able to think clearly.
I'm afraid Holland is going to be a tropical place very soon (without oxygen,

that is; 100%+ humidity).
       -
Okay enough of me,
       -
L8ER, Milan
       -



Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 18:10:37
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    Angus Carson <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 3 Sep 1995, Jeff Hanna wrote:

> > On Sun, 3 Sep 1995, Jeff Hanna wrote:
> >
> > > It's not a memory problem...at least not on your Amiga. 3.3 will not show
you
> > > the texture preview unless you have a 256 color (or greater) screen. Obvio
usly
> > > to do this on your 3000 you will need to purchase a 3rd party graphics boa
rd,
> > > like the Retina or CyberVision.
> >
> >    Would a Firecracker board work also?
>
>
> The description text for the RTNA and REMU flags in the Preferences editor
>make mention of the Firecracker and Opal boards, so I would assume so.
>Wouldn't hurt to try :)

Whoops, firecracker is only a framebuffer, Imagine doesn't work with it's
own impulse product. :-)

> I would HOPE the Firecracker board would be supported, since Impules made the
> dang thing!

    Made by and supported don't always go hand in hand...  I'm still
trying to find out how to get the update to the firecracker Light 24
paint program, if they ever made one.  Depends on who you talk to at
impulse.


Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 21:08:39
Subject: Re:povray radiosity
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

to Ken Robertson, regarding radiosity render times:
I think it's one of those cases of, "If you have to ask, you don't want to know?

Joel

Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 21:38:01
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>>>I don't think this will work. If you view a video of a person walking in
>>>reverse, that is, a normal video played in reverse, the motion doesn't
>>>look realistic. Weight is shifted the wrong way, etc. If you render a
>>>particle animation backwards, all the sparks from the fuse will fly INTO
>>>the end of the fuse instead of out of it. Am I missing something?
>>>
>>>See ya,
>>>   Roger
>
>It WILL work if the particles are done with 'reverse timing' on -- which will
>make the particles fly INTO the fuse, which results in the correct motion
>(sparks emitting) when the animation is reversed.  But how do you reverse the
>animation?  I'd like to generate a FLC, and I can't seem to find any
>reference to the movie pick list in the docs.
>
>Alan.

Sorry Alan, my fault. I did chase that up. It's no longer a text file. Nuts.
You may have to use another FLC compiler to compile in reverse. Anyone know
of a good PD one?

Bill Boyce


Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 21:43:10
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Greetings, Bush.
>
>> On Sun, 3 Sep 1995, Jeff Hanna wrote:
>>
>> > It's not a memory problem...at least not on your Amiga. 3.3 will not
show you
>> > the texture preview unless you have a 256 color (or greater) screen.
Obviously
>> > to do this on your 3000 you will need to purchase a 3rd party graphics
board,
>> > like the Retina or CyberVision.
>>
>>    Would a Firecracker board work also?
>
>
>The description text for the RTNA and REMU flags in the Preferences editor make

>mention of the Firecracker and Opal boards, so I would assume so. Wouldn't hurt

>to try :)
>
>I would HOPE the Firecracker board would be supported, since Impules made the
>dang thing!
>
You will need a graphics card with retargetable graphics - the opal and
firecracker
are framebuffers, so can't be used as interfaces (well the Opal can sort of). So

with a Retina you can do it, and I've heard of others through mode promotion
etc.
On the PC you need to run Univesa. Available from many PD sites.

Bill Boyce


Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 21:45:42
Subject: Re: '040 optimising vs Pentium
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Hello Bill, on Sep 2 you wrote:
>
>> I finally recieved my PC Imagine cross grade and got over to my friends
>> Pentium 90.
>> Wheee ...
>
>I'm using Amiga V3.0 and have'nt joined the constant upgrade plan yet.
>After seeing the CompuServe rendering results I'm selling my system (A3000)
>and getting a Pentium. Your test renders confirm my decision.
>
>How much did the cross upgrade cost?

$200 US. $100 for Imagine 3.0 PC, $100 to go on the Update program (well
worth being on).
Oh, and a small amount for shipping.

Bill Boyce

>
>> Wow. What an eye-opener. Pentium here I come!
>
>Same here!
>
>Thanks, Bob


Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 21:57:39
Subject: Re:CD BLue
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Received from GITD.PSG024  4523                 05SEP95  10.54
  -> IBMMAIL.INTERNET      IBMMAIL INTERNET               IBM
Hi all,

I would like to thank everyone that resopnded to my Query
relatingto Amiga cd and Win95. I guess I will eventually find out
coz I will be upgrading to Win95 someday.
                 ___
Cheers Big ears d + b
                  ~
Vems

Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 22:55:30
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've figured out another way to get the effect I wanted.  The main problem
was that I was trying to use the same path for reverse grow (the fuse) and as
a motion path for the particles source (sparks).  Imagine will not let you
reverse motion along a path, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, the solution was to create a 2nd path that was nearly identical to
the 1st, but have it's start point at the other end.

Now the particle source follows the shrinking fuse end, as desired!  If the
path were very complex, it would be difficult to use this method, unless
there is a way to reorder the points in a path.  Is there?

Thanks to everyone who responded.

Alan.

Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 22:58:06
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Mon, 4 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> Is it possible to make an object that doesn't cast shadows (without making it
> transparent)?
>
> Of course It'll be Traced, and the light will be set to cast shadows since I
> want other objects to cast shadows.

You could always make it a fog object, since those don't cast shadows.
But you'll probably want it shaded, so never mind.

>
> Alan.
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Monday, 04 September 1995 23:13:00
Subject: Amiga, PC
From:    Thomas Ross <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At least one person has noted that the downside of PCs is that they slow
down in the middle of rendering a series of frames, ie an animation: some-
thing to do with how they allocate memory. "slow to much slower than my
Amiga." Anyone else notice this?


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 02:33:51
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it possible to make an object that doesn't cast shadows (without making it
transparent)?

Of course It'll be Traced, and the light will be set to cast shadows since I
want other objects to cast shadows.

Alan.

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 04:05:58
Subject: Re: Videos
From:    [e-mail] (!LuM!)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Has Imagine ever been used in any MAJOR productions, like Lightwave has?
>I was also wondering why Imagine does not get much media coverage? Are
>there any videos out there showing off Imagine's abilities? such as an
>animation video?
>
>                           E-Mail: [e-mail]
>
I don't think so, I think most of it is the result of poor managment of
Impulse. Autodesk spend as much money on advertising as it does on R+D, I'm
not sure about LW but I'm sure that companies use LW mainly because it comes
with the Toaster.  Also it is faster (since it doesn't trace) and does have
"pretty lensflares (hehehe)...
                                            !LuM!

|------------------------------------------------\
|"World Class Complaining"  [e-mail]\
|Soon to have a Web page. (I wish :)  !NIN!        \
|                                                  /
|Superlink: NJ's Largest Internet Access Provider./
|------------------------------------------------/


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 08:57:27
Subject: The Catch
From:    Tom Ross <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like to expand on my recent question about the two platforms. Best to
quote what one user called "the catch":

"Rendering and modeling speeds aren't always an indication of
superiority. For example, when I'm halfway through an animation using the
IBM, it starts paging for VMEM (WinNT), then slows down to about half
speed as compared to the Amiga. Also, it does this with image processing.
I feel that this has to do with the way the IBM handles memory, as it
uses a segmented model, rather than a flat model, so it fragments the
memory into at least 3 chunks right from the beginning. Then there's the
paging of the hard drive to consider, which happens with Imagine as well
as other 3D programs. . . Good luck, and try using a Bridgeboard first,
to experiment with netting without the headaches of a LAN."

Yes?

Baby Shoeless

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 09:49:43
Subject: Axiom Software
From:    Carsten Bach <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have tried to send a fax to Axiom Software (Pixel 3D Professional).
But the number has been disconnected.

The last address i have is
Axiom Software
1668 E Cliff Road
Burnsville, MN 55337
612 894 0596
Fax [phone]

Does anybody know if they are still around. And if yes what there fax
number is


Arne Voigt
Copenhagen Denmark


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 11:05:59
Subject: Re: Texture Render
From:    Old_Man <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have just been through the same problem - thanks to some replies here
my Amiga and PC are now both showing textures. For the PC you need a
program called univesa (available from servius.waikato.ac.nz -
pub/pc/drivers/video); then change your Preferences ( in either Amiga or
PC )to SMOD=0; and S256 to T

Hope this works for you


On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, Red Hawk wrote:

> I have a problem with Imagine 3.3 .......
>        I'm not able to preview texture in ATTRIBUTES
>
>   Can someone Help ME !!!!!!!!!!!
>
>  .---------------------------------------------------------.
>  ! E-Mail: [e-mail]              __/// !
>  ! Amiga 4000/40 25Mhz 18Mb 2.0GbSCSI                \XX/  !
>  | Home Page:                                              !
>  ! http://cdc715_0.cdc.polimi.it/~qua1397/                 !
>  `---------------------------------------------------------'
>

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 11:40:11
Subject: Texture Render
From:    Red Hawk <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a problem with Imagine 3.3 .......
       I'm not able to preview texture in ATTRIBUTES

  Can someone Help ME !!!!!!!!!!!

 .---------------------------------------------------------.
 ! E-Mail: [e-mail]              __/// !
 ! Amiga 4000/40 25Mhz 18Mb 2.0GbSCSI                \XX/  !
 | Home Page:                                              !
 ! http://cdc715_0.cdc.polimi.it/~qua1397/                 !
 `---------------------------------------------------------'

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 12:00:34
Subject: Re: Videos
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Helmy asks:
>Has Imagine ever been used in any MAJOR productions, like Lightwave has?
>I was also wondering why Imagine does not get much media coverage? Are
>there any videos out there showing off Imagine's abilities? such as an
>animation video?
As far as I know, Imagine has not been used for "MAJOR" productions,
altho the last newsletter mentioned that it is being used for a monster
flick now being made.  It know it has been used for commercial work for
some time.  Carmen "Enterprise" Rizzolo was using it some years ago for
logo fly-bys.  Rick Rodriguez, who runs a TV station, uses it for logo
work.  Impulse put out a tape called "Video Noise," which had logo flys
amid various snips of robot anims, etc.  One of the fellows on the list
mentioned that he had an anim of the Jupiter comet crash shown on network
T.V.  So I would guess that a lot of shorter work has been done with
Imagine.

Obviously, the Toaster proved to be a great launch pad for LightWave,
as well as a great dongle.

Impulse does occassionaly advertise in Computer Graphics World, and
Imagine has been reviewed a couple of times as a low end alternative.

Hoping v4. is in the mail any day now
Greg Denby

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 13:10:27
Subject: Re: Texture Render
From:    James Cheseborough <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Must have AGA or GFX card for the AMiga. AND must look in preferences and
change two settings (like use 256 colors if possible).
Also RTFM, it's F in there. :-)

On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, Red Hawk wrote:

> I have a problem with Imagine 3.3 .......
>        I'm not able to preview texture in ATTRIBUTES
>
>   Can someone Help ME !!!!!!!!!!!
>
>  .---------------------------------------------------------.
>  ! E-Mail: [e-mail]              __/// !
>  ! Amiga 4000/40 25Mhz 18Mb 2.0GbSCSI                \XX/  !
>  | Home Page:                                              !
>  ! http://cdc715_0.cdc.polimi.it/~qua1397/                 !
>  `---------------------------------------------------------'
>

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 13:58:12
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    "needs a finger name." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Mon, 4 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> Is it possible to make an object that doesn't cast shadows (without making it
> transparent)?
>
> Of course It'll be Traced, and the light will be set to cast shadows since I
> want other objects to cast shadows.
>
> Alan.
>
To not have an object not cast a shadow you need to toggle to 'Do not
cast shoadows' button on for the lightsource.  Unfortunately all you
objects will then not cast any shadows.  What you really need is
Lightwave.  I guess this is a ting to add to future Imagines.

Jim Rix

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 13:59:27
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    "needs a finger name." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, Thomas Ross wrote:

> At least one person has noted that the downside of PCs is that they slow
> down in the middle of rendering a series of frames, ie an animation: some-
> thing to do with how they allocate memory. "slow to much slower than my
> Amiga." Anyone else notice this?
>
You should know that memory maanagement on PC is not very good.

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 16:38:14
Subject: Re: The Catch
From:    [e-mail] (!LuM!)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>"Rendering and modeling speeds aren't always an indication of
>superiority. For example, when I'm halfway through an animation using the
>IBM, it starts paging for VMEM (WinNT), then slows down to about half
>speed as compared to the Amiga. Also, it does this with image processing.
>I feel that this has to do with the way the IBM handles memory, as it
>uses a segmented model, rather than a flat model, so it fragments the
>memory into at least 3 chunks right from the beginning.

Hmmmm, in a 32-bit enviornment the memory is flat, where as in 16-bit it is
segmented.  I think the speed decrease has to do with Imagine. From what
i've seen its is just a 32-bit program accessing memory using page-swapping
(EMS), now if Impulse would give it a good dos extender like dos/4G or
pharlap then yes it could access a flat memory pool.  EMS is the slow, think
about it...you can only move 64k at a time...
                                            !LuM!

|------------------------------------------------\
|"World Class Complaining"  [e-mail]\
|Soon to have a Web page. (I wish :)  !NIN!        \
|                                                  /
|Superlink: NJ's Largest Internet Access Provider./
|------------------------------------------------/


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 16:59:49
Subject: '040 optimising vs Pentium
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>
>
> Amiga 4000, '040 40MHz  Lores Overscan          5m31s
> Pentium 90,             Lores Overscan          1m02s
>                         Hires Lace Overscan     2m05s
>
> Wow. What an eye-opener. Pentium here I come!

I'll say! Last night, I was rendering on the new Pentium 120, and doing
online stuff on the 3000/25. Gord walked in, and I managed to keep him
in the room while I opened the same project on both machines. I then
launched a Quickrender, and told him to watch how quickly the new computer
would fill the screen compared to the old.

Well, it never happened. The PC finished the 640x480 Quickrender before
the Amiga even left the "initializing..." phase. Now THAT'S impressive.



Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:00:20
Subject: Windoze availability
From:    [e-mail] (William Bogan)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

TO whomever knows....
I have been away from the mailing list for some time.
(Volume overwhelmed/impaired).

Would someone please bring me up to date on the Windows
proposed version. Status? Beta timeframe?

Thank you.

Bill

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:09:11
Subject: Re: a fuse
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: [e-mail]
>
> Anyway, the solution was to create a 2nd path that was nearly identical to
> the 1st, but have it's start point at the other end.

Good. That's what I was about to suggest.

> Now the particle source follows the shrinking fuse end, as desired!
> If the path were very complex, it would be difficult to use this
> method, unless there is a way to reorder the points in a path.  Is there?

The only thing that comes to mind would be to write down the coordinates
for each control point, then in Edit Path mode, swap the coordinates for
each pair of points, starting with the ends. You'd end up with the exact
same path, but being drawn the in opposite manner.

Anyone have a more direct way?


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:13:20
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    Steven M Powell <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone finds out more about the firecraker board, let me know. I think
my version of light24 is 1.1 . Cool board but old software.
                                                      Render on!!
                                                    Steven Powell

[e-mail]


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:14:50
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: [e-mail]
>
> Is it possible to make an object that doesn't cast shadows (without
> making it transparent)?
>
> Of course It'll be Traced, and the light will be set to cast shadows
> since I want other objects to cast shadows.

Fortunately, YES! Just give your object a Fog Length of, say, 0.001.
Imagine (up to 3.3, anyway) has a bug/feature whereby Fog objects do not
cast shadows; if you set the Fog Length to a very small value, the foggy
object will not look any different from a solid one.


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:27:49
Subject: Creating Lanscapes
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>
>
> > From: [e-mail]
> >
> >
> > It does require you have the Essence textures. Does anyone knows if the
> > Essence textures is available for the PC.
>
> No it doesn't. Reread my message; I mention that you can use Imagine's
> Dirt texture if you don't have Essence.

As a followup, I read that Essence/PC had to be retooled due to the
changes brought on by Imagine 3.3, which meant a new round of testing,
and the accompanying delays. The good news is, when they do come out,
Essence/PC textures will be fully compatible with 3.3.

P.S. in reworking an Amiga project for use on my new PC, I realized that
Impulse's Dirt texture seems quite different from Essence's Blobc noise.
Blobc looks like cloudy formations, while Dirt seems to have a more
structured "reflections off water" look to it, with the definite
patterns one would associate with it. So, Dirt might not be a perfect
substitute for Blobc.




Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:33:31
Subject: Re: Merge Points
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: Dave Rhodes <[e-mail]>
>
> Hi Charles etc.. (..and welcome back..)

Thanks Dave!

> If you pick a load of points, for example drag a box around the front
> third of a default primitive sphere, then using the Translate requester,
> Scale the points to -0.0001 on the required axis, (in this case, Y ) the
> points will all be put onto ALMOST the same Y pos, and could then be
> easily moved to the exact required place, as one.

Actually Dave, you _are_ allowed to enter zero, you know. As far as I
know, using the Transformations requester, you can Scale all selected
points by a factor of zero, along the desired axis, e.g. Y, and OK. This
places all the selected points at the exact same Y coordinate. You can
then enter Transformations again, this time using Translate or Position,
and entering a value in the Y field only. If this doesn't work for you,
please report back.


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:39:07
Subject: Re: Texture etc.Previews, PC and Amiga
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: Bush Doktor <[e-mail]>
>
>    Would a Firecracker board work also?

Impulse did include Firecracker (and, I assume, Opalvision) support in
the new Texture Explorer, but wasn't able to debug it in time for 3.3's
release, so they disabled it. Small price to pay if you ask me, compared
with delaying 3.3. Mike says they're working on it.




Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:54:09
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    Louis Sinclair <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone wrote:
"Is it possible to make an object that doesn't cast shadows (without
making it transparent)?"

The easiest way I know is to render everything but the non-shadow-
casting-object, then render those objects alone without shadows
using the previously rendered frame(s) as a backdrop.

This gets difficult if the object must move behind shadow-casting
objects.  You have to put additional objects in the second render,
or use post-production with a mask (more complicated, but more
flexible) to get the no-shadow object to be obscured by foreground
objects.


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:54:16
Subject: Videos
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: [e-mail]
>
> Has Imagine ever been used in any MAJOR productions, like Lightwave has?

Apart from what has been posted in another message, I don't know. See
next question for an explanation.

> I was also wondering why Imagine does not get much media coverage?

First off, they don't advertise as much as NewTek. It's a sad fact of
life, but advertising keeps a product present in your mind, making it
seem to be part of the landscape. This means that an editor, when
assigning work, would tend to include that product, since it appears
mainstream, more often than some forgotten package only seen in an ad or
two. Secondly, Impulse don't seem to actively pursue high visibility as
a goal the way NewTek and Autodesk do, so of course they get less
exposure that way. Mike says that commercials, TV shows, etc. use
Imagine, but doesn't want to spread it around for all to see. Some of
you may feel he's bullshitting us and really hasn't got much up his
sleeve, and that would explain why he's so discreet about the whole
thing. (A clever quote from Edmond Rostand? comes to mind: "Modest
people often have good reasons to be so") B^) Others may believe Mike;
his company is small, and doesn't have the resources to be all things to
all people. They have demonstrated through the years their emphasis on
building features into Imagine. "Frills" like good PR might not be high
on their agenda. You choose what to believe.

> Are there any videos out there showing off Imagine's abilities? such as
> an animation video?

Well, umm, yes, but I wouldn't recommend them. Impulse produced a tape
called "A little video noise", and I eagerly ordered it, but was quite
disappointed. It's not Impulse's fault, really, but the material they had
available was quite amateurish, with jerky camera and object moves that
made Imagine look as bad as a bargain $69 3-D keyframe-only animator.
There was also a great training tape from Rick Rodriguez of VRS Media,
called "Imagine: the possibilities", but that 1991 offering only covered
the basics of version 2.0; nothing worth your trouble in 1995, really.



Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 17:58:45
Subject: Re: Wish List
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: John Prusinski <[e-mail]>
>
> In my case at least, saving notes in an external editor is an invitation
> to (months later) spending hours looking for where I saved (and what I
> called) the associated text file so as to avoid spending hours trying to
> figure out what I was doing in the project itself!

Here's what I do; perhaps it can help you. In the .IMP project
directory, I keep a file called "Notes", where I type up any
particularly devious trick I might he using, and we know that happens
all the time. <g> For an individual object, if not in the "Notes" file,
I might use "<object name>.TXT", stored in the same directory as the
object. Sounds sensible to me, no?

(And yes, a NOTE IFF chunk would be a great idea)


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 18:01:40
Subject: Re: Wish List
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: [e-mail]
>
> I read on CIS the other day Mike Halvorson saying to someone that PC
> upgrades to 4.0 outnumbered Amiga upgrades something like 20:1 even
> though there are many more Amiga Imagine user's.

Just for the record, total sales run 4:1 in favor of Amiga owners, but
Constant Upgrade subscribers run 10:1 for the PC. Quite a staggering
difference in activity, if you ask me.


Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 18:15:21
Subject: Real-world perspective
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a copy of an incredible message I found on CompuServe. Tim Wilson
is the esteemed creator of Humanoid and Kinemodelz.

------------------------------------------------------------

#: 10500 S3/Impulse
    04-Sep-95  00:37:54
Sb: #10457-Human Perspective
Fm: Tim Wilson [Crestline] 76432,1122

Date:    Tuesday, 05 September 1995 22:16:13
Subject: Re: Axiom Software
From:    Scott F Tracy <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>
> I have tried to send a fax to Axiom Software (Pixel 3D Professional).
> But the number has been disconnected.
>
> The last address i have is
> Axiom Software
> 1668 E Cliff Road
> Burnsville, MN 55337
> 612 894 0596
> Fax [phone]

 New voice number 612 688 8611

>
> Does anybody know if they are still around. And if yes what there fax
> number is

 There still around, I called the voice line today and got there machine
it answers "Vived Technology Axiom Software". I left a message asking
if they could get back to me with a Fax number or E-mail address, havent
heard back from them yet. I'll let you know if I do.

>
>
> Arne Voigt
> Copenhagen Denmark
>
>

Scott F Tracy
[e-mail]


Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 00:24:28
Subject: Re: Videos
From:    James Alex Brooks <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, Charles Blaquiere wrote:


> > Are there any videos out there showing off Imagine's abilities? such as
> > an animation video?
>
> Well, umm, yes, but I wouldn't recommend them. Impulse produced a tape
> called "A little video noise", and I eagerly ordered it, but was quite
> disappointed. It's not Impulse's fault, really, but the material they had
> available was quite amateurish, with jerky camera and object moves that
> made Imagine look as bad as a bargain $69 3-D keyframe-only animator.


Hmm, I ordered that tape over a 1 1/2 years ago and would you believe
there was NOTHING but video noise!  Serious.  I really thought it was
just that.  I was thinking, why the hell would they say video noise for $20!
I was overseas at the time and it could have gone thru strong x-rays or
something.  :(


Alex

---------------------------------------------------------------
James "Alex" Brooks              Amiga 4000/040/28MHz 22MB RAM
VideoToaster 4000 3.1/3.5      Emplant Deluxe / MAC / DOS
Imagine 3.0 -- Syquest 270MB   Bernoulli 90Pro
NEC 3xp Triple Speed CDROM       Warp Engine 4028
Epson ES-600C Scanner            E-Mail: [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------


Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 01:10:28
Subject: Re: Videos
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Helmy, on Sep 4 you wrote:

> Has Imagine ever been used in any MAJOR productions, like Lightwave has?
> I was also wondering why Imagine does not get much media coverage? Are
> there any videos out there showing off Imagine's abilities? such as an
> animation video?

Here's a message I received from a BBS last year regarding a video done
with Imagine, not sure what version though.

======================================================================
From: John Campbell             Conference: 130 , Imagine Support
  To: All                       Message: 2588  Reply To: 0
Subj: Imagine Demo tape         Date: 07-04-94  Time: 00:22
======================================================================
Just wanted to tell everyone about a stunning new videotape highlighting
what Imagine is REALLY capable of, if enough effort is put into using the
program. It's called "The Imagine Video Collection 1", from a talented 3D
Artist by the name of Craig. A. Collins.

It starts off with some early stuff done in Imagine, and looks pretty, but
has little in the way of content. Things start improving however, when "the
ad", and "last stand on hoth" are shown. Here, there are some very
interesting shots of character animation and rack focus shots. The tape
REALLY shifts into high gear though, when Craig does some "movie trailers".
Soldier X features a high-tech battlesuit beng stolen from a top secret
complex, and has some excellent camera angles when the suit is in action!
Suffice to say, there are some pretty intense moments as Soldier X tries to
escape the complex, as an explosion is triggered and threatens to wipe out
the suit. The whole story is complemented by an excellent sound track, and
sound effects.

Tigris features the inevitable space shots, and has some superbly detailed
spacecraft which woudn't look out of place on Babylon 5. Of particular
interest is the simulated radiosity effects as the tigris spacecraft leave
the docking bay.

This brings us to almost the final segment of the tape, a sequence
featuring everyone's favorite xenomorphs! This segment is shown as if YOU
are the marine, wandering around a deserted space colony. As you patrol the
corridors, cutaway shots reveal that you are not alone in the complex... .
APC vehicles patrol the perimiter of the colony complex, and you expect
support from them at the exit lock. Suddenly, the motion detector in yor
hand activates, and the next thing you know is that the plasma rifle in
your other hand is firing at the lone aliens attacking you.
The visuals are complemented by sensible use of background sound FX.
Superb camerawork, and use of motion blur techniques make "Aliens 4", a
must-see. I honestly thought that some of the effects were not capable
outside of Lightwave, but Craig has done a superlative job given the
limited resources available..an Amiga 2000, 040 accelerator, and a 52Mb
hard drive.

The video is available from 17 bit software, 2/8 Market Street, Wakefield.
Tel: [phone], at around 12.99.

=======================

-- Bob

  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :


Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 05:03:13
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    Martin Keitel <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, Charles Blaquiere wrote:

> > From: [e-mail]
> >
> > Is it possible to make an object that doesn't cast shadows (without
> > making it transparent)?
> >
> Fortunately, YES! Just give your object a Fog Length of, say, 0.001.
> Imagine (up to 3.3, anyway) has a bug/feature whereby Fog objects do not
> cast shadows; if you set the Fog Length to a very small value, the foggy
> object will not look any different from a solid one.
>
Unfortunately, NO! No cast shadow but no shading either. No reflections,
no specularity... not solid but brihgt! Any other suggestions?

Marty K

p.s. I wellcome myself to the list again!


Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 05:13:34
Subject: Re: Videos
From:    Martin Keitel <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, Charles Blaquiere wrote:

> > Are there any videos out there showing off Imagine's abilities? such as
> > an animation video?
>
> Well, umm, yes, but I wouldn't recommend them. Impulse produced a tape
> called "A little video noise", and I eagerly ordered it, but was quite
> disappointed. It's not Impulse's fault, really, but the material they had
> available was quite amateurish, with jerky camera and object moves that
> made Imagine look as bad as a bargain $69 3-D keyframe-only animator.
> There was also a great training tape from Rick Rodriguez of VRS Media,
> called "Imagine: the possibilities", but that 1991 offering only covered
> the basics of version 2.0; nothing worth your trouble in 1995, really.
>
Why not collect the best animations from the Imagine users and make a
terrific demonstration video of them? I'm sure there are some pretty neat
animations done by many IML readers and other Imagine users that can be
contacted through the net.
It could be a contest of a kind. People would send their best animations
(on video tape or as digital animations or even projects) to Impulse and
they would select -say 20 of them into the video. Everyone included would
get a prize (not a very high one, so that the total cost could be
minimized) and the possibility to make his/her work known.

Marty K


Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 08:32:26
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    [e-mail] (The Prophet)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use a fill-light to eliminate the shadow.  It will take
some experimentation with intensities and controlled fall-off,
but it can work.

Jaeson K.
 ____            ____            _           _
( |  \          ( /  \          ( )       _ / )
 )|   )_   __    /   /_   _  __  /   __  ( X_)
( |  /~ \ /\_)  /---~/ ) / )/  )/~\ /\_)  / _
 )ll/  l/ \__ (/   (/   (_//__//  / \__  (___)
(____________)        (___/        (___)

Jaeson Koszarsky                  Amiga 3000+
----------------                  -----------
[e-mail]              68040/30Mhz
[e-mail]                24Megs-1GIG
[e-mail]            OS3.1

Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 10:03:56
Subject: Re: Videos
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> From: [e-mail]
>>
>> Has Imagine ever been used in any MAJOR productions, like Lightwave has?
>
>Apart from what has been posted in another message, I don't know. See
>next question for an explanation.
>
>> I was also wondering why Imagine does not get much media coverage?
>
I've produced several TV commercials using Imagine, for national broadcast
here in New Zealand, as well as the Alphabrek animation in The Magic Box,
which has (still is??) shown nationally (PBS?) in the States (my first
big job! Done in 6Mb of RAM, before you criticise!) One reason for all
the Lightwave stuff is it's a huge jump in ease of use for animation, even
if it isn't as feature rich in many areas.


Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 13:23:14
Subject: Re: Videos
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martin Keitel wrote;

>Why not collect the best animations from the Imagine users and make a=20
>terrific demonstration video of them? I'm sure there are some pretty neat=20
>animations done by many IML readers and other Imagine users that can be=20
>contacted through the net.
>It could be a contest of a kind. People would send their best animations=20
>(on video tape or as digital animations or even projects) to Impulse and=20
>they would select -say 20 of them into the video. Everyone included would=20
>get a prize (not a very high one, so that the total cost could be=20
>minimized) and the possibility to make his/her work known.

This came up on the IML a few months back, sort of like doing the IML=20
contest from 2 or 3 years back all over again. But somehow that thread just=
=20
died...

I for one would _love_ such a contest, since I wasn't around the IML by=20
that time. In fact I don't suppose I even knew what raytracing was...

Who organized that contest back then? Could we persude him/her/them to do=20
it again?
What categories should be contested?
Where should contestants send their contributions?
What format should they be in? (stills, anim, flic, mpeg, video, pal or=20
ntsc, and so on)
Minimum / maximum animation length?
Who's to judge what's good and what's not, and on what basis?
Timeframe? (Should it be over and done with by christmas?)
More?

*---------------------------------------------------------------*
|   Conny Joensson   |   Swedish Space Corp. Esrange            |
|   Kiruna           |   Satellite operations - Telecom Div.    |
|   Sweden           |   [e-mail]              |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*

Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 14:52:12
Subject: Re: '040 optimising vs Pentium
From:    Fernando D'Andrea <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > From: Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>
> >
> > Amiga 4000, '040 40MHz  Lores Overscan          5m31s
> > Pentium 90,             Lores Overscan          1m02s
> >                         Hires Lace Overscan     2m05s
> >
> > Wow. What an eye-opener. Pentium here I come!
>
> I'll say! Last night, I was rendering on the new Pentium 120, and doing
> online stuff on the 3000/25. Gord walked in, and I managed to keep him
> in the room while I opened the same project on both machines. I then
> launched a Quickrender, and told him to watch how quickly the new computer
> would fill the screen compared to the old.
>
> Well, it never happened. The PC finished the 640x480 Quickrender before
> the Amiga even left the "initializing..." phase. Now THAT'S impressive.
>
>
>
    Hard comparission. I just use a Cyrix DX2 80mhz and a 2Mg A 1200
020 14 Mhz. I just use Imagine in the Amiga, so I cannot compare both
machines. But if someone can, try to compare a Pentium with a
Cyberstorm 060 equipped Amiga.

*********************************
Fernando Pena D'Andrea.
E-Mail: [e-mail]
*********************************

Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 16:59:54
Subject: Re: Wish List
From:    [e-mail] (John Prusinski)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> From: John Prusinski <[e-mail]>
>>
>> In my case at least, saving notes in an external editor is an invitation
>> to (months later) spending hours looking for where I saved (and what I
>> called) the associated text file so as to avoid spending hours trying to
>> figure out what I was doing in the project itself!
>
>Here's what I do; perhaps it can help you. In the .IMP project
>directory, I keep a file called "Notes", where I type up any
>particularly devious trick I might he using, and we know that happens
>all the time. <g> For an individual object, if not in the "Notes" file,
>I might use "<object name>.TXT", stored in the same directory as the
>object. Sounds sensible to me, no?
>
>(And yes, a NOTE IFF chunk would be a great idea)
>


All of the above (and similar suggestions from others) make sense, but don't
take into account one key factor: my laziness and tendency to never be more
organized than I absolutely have to!  Having an external file for my notes
requires that I (1) Set it up ahead of time; (2) Either quit Imagine when I
want to add to the note file, or write the stuff down on paper and
transcribe it later.  (the cross to bear for having crossed over to a
faster-but-non-multitasking-platform, no platform wars please).  About the
only way I'm likely to go to the effort of keeping project notes any longer
than the duration of the project would be if the extent of the effort
required to do it was to drop-down the "File" menu, and click on an item
labelled "Notes" which would open a simple text editor.

Not that I by any means think this should be an Impulse priority, say vs.
updating/revamping the interface, adding new modelling/animation features,
etc.  Someone just suggested the idea, and it seemed like a useful one to
me.  :-}|=

John.


Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 20:23:48
Subject: Revolving light done!!
From:    Peter Borcherds <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there

I finally got my revolving light figured out.  For those who are
interested here's how I did it:

In the detail editor I made a reflector object (colored black), and moved
the axis to the bottom as a pivot point.  I added an axis, which I made a
light (point, round shape, R=400 G=0 B=0).

          /                /  x <- light (x)
          |  reflector     |
          \                \  (something like that....)

I grouped these two objects to enable them to revolve together.  I made a
glass cover, and a bulb (R=255 G=0 B=0, set to Bright).  In the action
editor I added the Revolve effect to the reflector (revolve around Z
axis) and then traced.  In effect, the black reflector object revolves
with the light around the bright bulb object, shining the light onto the
walls of the room, and hiding parts of the bulb as it revolves, creating
a realistic (at least I think so) warning light.

I haven't added lensflares yet, as Imagine's lensflare effect adds
multiple flares, instead of just one when the light is shining directly
at the camera.  I'll probably use Imagemaster (Amiga) or WinImages (PC)
to add flares.

Not really a detailed description, but it should at least give you an
idea how I achieved the effect. I might post a jpeg to show you what it
looks like.

Many thanks to Bill Boyce, David Nix, Rob Sampson and Robert Byrne for
their tips.  Also to Hendrik Kueck for replying, but unfortunately I
can't understand German - thanks anyway.

By the way, I'm finally back on the IML.....third time lucky!!

Till later....

Cheers....

Peter


Peter Borcherds                             e-mail: [e-mail]
===================================================================
             Greetings from the Southern Hemisphere
         Amiga 4000/030  68882/40mhz  10mb Ram   540mb HD
===================================================================

Date:    Wednesday, 06 September 1995 23:36:57
Subject: Re: '040 optimising vs Pentium
From:    [e-mail] (joop van de wege)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>    Hard comparission. I just use a Cyrix DX2 80mhz and a 2Mg A 1200
>020 14 Mhz. I just use Imagine in the Amiga, so I cannot compare both
>machines. But if someone can, try to compare a Pentium with a
>Cyberstorm 060 equipped Amiga.
On the same level. I saw a comparison between a Pentium90 and a 68040@25Mhz
and the Pentium was faster *until* you multiplied the 90/25 difference in
clock speed to the times quoted.
You can prove anything you want with numbers.

Problem one with Imagine on M68K machines is that it is not optimised for 040
despite the statements from M.H.
The Fire.itx is using multiple fsin/fcos instructions, the reason why mouse
cursors get jerky when using that texture. Same goes probably for the main
program. :(

The IML archives of August are coming, I'm a bit busy these days.

Joop

Date:    Thursday, 07 September 1995 03:21:14
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sep 5 "needs"?? wrote:

> Thomas Ross wrote:

> > At least one person has noted that the downside of PCs is that they slow
> > down in the middle of rendering a series of frames, ie an animation: some-
> > thing to do with how they allocate memory. "slow to much slower than my
> > Amiga." Anyone else notice this?
> >

> You should know that memory maanagement on PC is not very good.

As soon as I sell my A3000 :(, I'm upgrading? to a P90 for obvious reasons,
speed. Would large amounts of RAM help overcome this "slow down" problem?
I'll have 16Mb to start with.

-- Bob

  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :


Date:    Thursday, 07 September 1995 04:06:01
Subject: Re: Merge Points
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Charles, on Sep 5 you wrote:

> Actually Dave, you _are_ allowed to enter zero, you know. As far as I
> know, using the Transformations requester, you can Scale all selected
> points by a factor of zero, along the desired axis, e.g. Y, and OK. This
> places all the selected points at the exact same Y coordinate. You can
> then enter Transformations again, this time using Translate or Position,
> and entering a value in the Y field only. If this doesn't work for you,
> please report back.

Thanks for that, I did'nt realise you could scale by 0. I scaled the top
third points of a Prim Sphere in Y and did a Merge and the point count went
from 266 to 254. Scaling by 0.0001 left the count at 266 after a Merge.
Pity you can't Replicate to a length of 0 while rotating around the Y axis,
it would enable Merge to work but I tried setting the grid to a very small
value and snapped the points, that works very well.

-- Bob

Date:    Thursday, 07 September 1995 07:11:58
Subject: Re: '040 optimising vs Pentium
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>    Hard comparission. I just use a Cyrix DX2 80mhz and a 2Mg A 1200
>>020 14 Mhz. I just use Imagine in the Amiga, so I cannot compare both
>>machines. But if someone can, try to compare a Pentium with a
>>Cyberstorm 060 equipped Amiga.
>On the same level. I saw a comparison between a Pentium90 and a 68040@25Mhz
>and the Pentium was faster *until* you multiplied the 90/25 difference in
>clock speed to the times quoted.

but does it cost 90/25 times as much??

>You can prove anything you want with numbers.

up to a point - in this case you'd be hard pushed to prove an amiga can
run Imagine faster than a Pentium 90 - any Amiga. Just don't make me
do anything else on the Pentium than render! Not after a platform war,
I love my Amiga and respect the PC's raw speed (though little else)
There, I've insulted both machines - everybody happy ;)

>Problem one with Imagine on M68K machines is that it is not optimised for 040
>despite the statements from M.H.
>The Fire.itx is using multiple fsin/fcos instructions, the reason why mouse
>cursors get jerky when using that texture. Same goes probably for the main
>program. :(

C'mon Impulse - optimize that sucker!

>The IML archives of August are coming, I'm a bit busy these days.
>
>Joop
Keep up the good work ...


Date:    Thursday, 07 September 1995 23:39:50
Subject: Where is 4.0?
From:    [e-mail] (!LuM!)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This sounds really nieve but...wasn't it supposed to come out arpound the
end of august?  I'm already back in school...I need imagine 4.0!!!!
Geeezzz, I don't think I'll be able to stand the wait for winImagine! Maybe
It'll be another 2 years...
                                            !LuM!

|------------------------------------------------\
|"World Class Complaining"  [e-mail]\
|Soon to have a Web page. (I wish :)  !NIN!        \
|                                                  /
|Superlink: NJ's Largest Internet Access Provider./
|------------------------------------------------/


Date:    Friday, 08 September 1995 01:11:02
Subject: Re: Where is 4.0?
From:    Steven M Powell <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, !LuM! wrote:

> This sounds really nieve but...wasn't it supposed to come out arpound the
> end of august?  I'm already back in school...I need imagine 4.0!!!!
> Geeezzz, I don't think I'll be able to stand the wait for winImagine! Maybe
> It'll be another 2 years...
>                                             !LuM!
>
> |------------------------------------------------\
> |"World Class Complaining"  [e-mail]\
> |Soon to have a Web page. (I wish :)  !NIN!        \
> |                                                  /
> |Superlink: NJ's Largest Internet Access Provider./
> |------------------------------------------------/
>
>

 I wouldn't hold my breath. I paid for features back in 1993 that was
supposed to be in 3.0, That I paid for agian in the 4.0 upgrade.

3.0 was supposed to be out in aug-sept and it shipped in march the
following year. Impulse sent out 2.9 to hold you over, I think it was
around december. Anyway I dont know if I can handle all the new bugs that
will be in 4.0 !

Everytime I figure out a feature, it stops working or changes in the upgrade.
Dont get me wrong, I love my amigas and Imagine. It's just getting old
being the underdog. I have been on the bandwagon since Silver 1.0 and I
think Impulse will probably let the amiga development drop in favor of
the pentiams like Newtek did.

Mike if you read this, I have a request. Please fix all the bugs before
you drop the amiga. It's been a good program, and I'm sure I will still
use it as long as I have an amiga (forever).

                                                 Render on
                                                 Phoenix
P.S.
 My A1000 will be ten in
 december, I'm still glad
 I bought it , and all the
 ones that followed.


Date:    Friday, 08 September 1995 06:37:33
Subject: Re: Where is 4.0?
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
>On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, !LuM! wrote:
>
-Snip-
>Everytime I figure out a feature, it stops working or changes in the upgrade.
>Dont get me wrong, I love my amigas and Imagine. It's just getting old
>being the underdog. I have been on the bandwagon since Silver 1.0 and I
>think Impulse will probably let the amiga development drop in favor of
>the pentiams like Newtek did.

They have ?? Haven't they just gone 'cross-platform' (at this stage - wouldn't
suprise me if they did drop Amiga) like Imagine?


Date:    Saturday, 09 September 1995 03:08:09
Subject: Video board
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone recommend a #9 GXI PCI 64 bit Gfx card for use with Imagine on a
Pentium. A dealer mentioned it as an alternative.

-- Bob


  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :


Date:    Saturday, 09 September 1995 09:16:56
Subject: Re: increasing rendering speed on Amiga
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, Drift Dennis wrote:

>         I have used a utility program called XOPER, to change the task
> priority o of imagine from the +5, I think, to +125. One result of this was
> that my r rendering time dropped dramatically, also the mouse wouldn't move
> well, and m multitasking was a joke. But my main interest is usually to
> render as fast as p possible.

Well, so much for Amigas advantages then if you can't multi-task, heh...
I'd gladly give up a bit of rendering time so I could do something in the
mean time, unless of course I had another computer or was working on an
animation or something...

> Xoper apparently doesn't like DOS 3.1, and won't run. Can anyone tell me
> how to change the task priority? I am sure that it is a fairly simple thing,
> but I can't find the info to do it.
> Once I can do that I will run a comparison between my 4000/40/40mhz, and
> the 486dx2-66.
> Thanks for any assistance....Drift
>

Well, you might want to try ARTM, which is Amiga Real Time Monitor.  It
will let you kill processes, and I think it will let you set their
priority as well.  I don't suppose the "changetaskpri" command (or
whatever it is close to) is included with AmigaDOS anymore?  Sorry I
can't be of more help

Damon


Date:    Saturday, 09 September 1995 14:02:39
Subject: Re: increasing rendering speed on Amiga
From:    [e-mail] (joop van de wege)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>        I have used a utility program called XOPER, to change the task
>priority o of imagine from the +5, I think, to +125. One result of this was
>that my r rendering time dropped dramatically, also the mouse wouldn't move
>well, and m multitasking was a joke. But my main interest is usually to
>render as fast as p possible.
I doubt that statement about 'dramatically', for one thing raising the
priority above 5 is not a good idea since your device-handlers run at +5 and
the filesystem handlers run at +10 and you might lock one or both out.
If you indeed get a dramatic improvement in speed then start looking for the
program that eats all your cpu time.
If you don't move the mouse and no other program (screenblankers are notorius
for this) is busy using the cpu except Imagine then Imagine will use all
available time.
Raising the priority of Imagine to +1 or +2 from the standard 0 is enough to
let it have all cpu cycles it will ever need.

I'm using with 3.1 on my A3000: Xoper2.4, ARTM, Scout etc, all available from
Aminet.                         ^^^^^^^^

Joop

Date:    Saturday, 09 September 1995 16:20:00
Subject: Windows 95
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> From: Old_Man <[e-mail]>-> Do you find that Windows 95 is worth
 it? . My impression so far is= th-> it is not only buggy but slower for program
s not written for it.-> BillIMHO Win '95 has gotten a bum rap. It is definately
worth it! If it'sbuggy, it's certainly less buggy than Win 3.11. It handles prog
ramcrashes better....you no longer get lock out of Windows, you just kil=lthe ap
p. It's much easier to navigate and launch programs.I find no apparent slowdown
in any 16-bit app. If anything, they runa little snappier. And if you are used t
o the Amiga OS, you'll feelright at home. It does make you wonder how those Wiza
rds at Los Gatosactually got Amiga OS to run from 4 (880k) floppies when Win '95
 take=sup 50 megs, however. :)   /------------------------------           ___
 ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der Sommen                     / __  /__/ /__/  /_
 \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.                     /___/ / \  /  /  /     / \  | mik
[e-mail]     HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |           "Blackouts make for nice breaks in the day"   \_____________________
________________________________________--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Sant
a Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Saturday, 09 September 1995 18:11:14
Subject: Re: increasing rendering speed on Amiga
From:    "needs a finger name." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Well, you might want to try ARTM, which is Amiga Real Time Monitor.  It
> will let you kill processes, and I think it will let you set their
> priority as well.  I don't suppose the "changetaskpri" command (or
> whatever it is close to) is included with AmigaDOS anymore?  Sorry I
> can't be of more help
>
> Damon
>
Unfortunately, changetaskpri will only change the priority of programs
launched from the shell.  It is included in Amigados 3.1.

Jim Rix

Date:    Saturday, 09 September 1995 22:53:29
Subject: RE:Soccer ball
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 30 Aug 1995, Granberg Tom wrote:

> Hi there!
>
> Rod Macey wrote:
> I saw a quite believable soccer ball on Tom G's home page. I'm sure he
> may be persuaded to reveal his secrets to all.
>
> It's true that this ball looks cool, but that is not my fault since it is a re
al
> polygon modeled soocer ball made by Veiwpoint, so I'm sorry I cant give it awa
y.
> I tried to model one by myself, but after 4 days of constant hope crushing due

> to the mix of the two shapes involved. I gave up and made my employer buy one

> instead.
>
> Later.
>
> Tom Renderbrandt.
>
>
Renderbrandt reveals his modelling secrets 8-)

Rod Macey: [e-mail] - Pre-press/Graphic Designer
Home: A2000/30 FPU 4MB RAM [soon to be 12 8-)] Imagine 3.0
Work: Power Macs, Sun Sparc & Pee Cees too.
"Sometimes the hard way is the only way!"


Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 03:32:28
Subject: Re: increasing rendering speed on Amiga
From:    Edward Chadez <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a previous letter, needs a finger name. wrote:
}
} > Well, you might want to try ARTM, which is Amiga Real Time Monitor.  It
} > will let you kill processes, and I think it will let you set their
} > priority as well.  I don't suppose the "changetaskpri" command (or
} > whatever it is close to) is included with AmigaDOS anymore?  Sorry I
} > can't be of more help
} >
} > Damon
} >
} Unfortunately, changetaskpri will only change the priority of programs
} launched from the shell.  It is included in Amigados 3.1.
}

As of AmigaDOS 2.04, Changetaskpri will allow you to alter any task started
from any shell.

To control priorities of tasks -not- started from a shell (ie, workbench), I
use "TaskX" (which you will find on AmiNet).  Aside from priority control,
you can send any task any of the standard break signals (^C|^D|^E|^F).

Personally, I use IconX to start up Imagine.  I have one script which is
called "Imagine.Nice" which sets the priority to -3.  I then use TaskX to
increase or lower the priority depending on what other projects I'm working
on at the same time (ie, web browsing, word processing, reading my email. :-)
I can also bring everything else down (ie, kill the workbench) and let
Imagine have the full machine if I want it to.

} Jim Rix
}
      -Ed
--
Edward Chadez                                     http://galileo.carl.org/
Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst (Systems Integration Team)
CARL Corporation                                             [phone]

Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 03:50:38
Subject: Re: increasing rendering speed on Amiga
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Well, you might want to try ARTM, which is Amiga Real Time Monitor.  It
>> will let you kill processes, and I think it will let you set their
>> priority as well.  I don't suppose the "changetaskpri" command (or
>> whatever it is close to) is included with AmigaDOS anymore?  Sorry I
>> can't be of more help
>>
>> Damon
>>
>Unfortunately, changetaskpri will only change the priority of programs
>launched from the shell.  It is included in Amigados 3.1.
>
>Jim Rix
>
Think it's called settaskpri now (or not). Either way, you could set up
a script with iconx which sets the priority, then a decent stack size, then
launches Imagine. No problem. You could call this ImagineFast or something
and only use it when you want to render. Anyone want to comment on running
something at a priority of +125? Doesn't that exceed the recommended limit
and risk conflicting with OS functions like SCSI access and suchlike?


Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 05:12:16
Subject: Re: increasing rendering speed on Amiga
From:    [e-mail] (Gregory Helleren)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Drift (Drift Dennis), in <[e-mail]> on Sep 8 you wrote
:

>         I have used a utility program called XOPER, to change the task
> priority o of imagine from the +5, I think, to +125. One result of this was
> that my r rendering time dropped dramatically, also the mouse wouldn't move
> well, and m multitasking was a joke. But my main interest is usually to
> render as fast as p possible.
> Xoper apparently doesn't like DOS 3.1, and won't run. Can anyone tell me
> how to change the task priority? I am sure that it is a fairly simple thing,
> but I can't find the info to do it.
> Once I can do that I will run a comparison between my 4000/40/40mhz, and
> the 486dx2-66.

The latest version of xoper does run on an A4000/040 under 3.1 - also you
might like to try ARTM (Amiga Real Time Monitor) or, better still, Scout
(needs MUI).

Cheese
Gregg

--
+-----------------------------------------///\/\/\_Amiga Technologies_/\/\+
  Gregg Helleren         AMIGA is REBORN /// Lecturer Information Technology
  Developer - LaseRage                  ///  SEMC TAFE Western Australia
  Ferndale W.A. Australia ____/\___/\\\///   [e-mail]
  CBMNET:[e-mail]\XX/    [e-mail]
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+



Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 05:24:26
Subject: There's no slowdown on PC Imagine.
From:    Tom Ellard <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Down stuff....

I have imagine on a DX2-66 here, and have just finished a long render (2
days). I have inspected the time to render the frames and there is no
evidence of any slowdown in the middle of the rendering project. I have no
idea where this particular myth started but it should stop.

Right next to the DX2 is an A4000 with a Warp Engine in it. It renders the
same scenes slower than the DX2. There's no need to muck around with maths.
One is slower. It's not a drama.

Up stuff....

To be more constructive in this forum I'd like to mention that there's a
new parallel link program for PC's to Amigas up on Aminet called Easylink -
the share version is badly crippled and crashes a lot but it looks hopeful.

Also worth looking at is a CDROM title called GADGET that's just arrived in
this country - obviously rendered with something like 3D Studio but it's
really beautifully done, especially the people.


Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 05:43:00
Subject: Increasing rendering speed
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've always used a small utility called TaskY to control priorities.
Its simple and works great. Whenever I'm rendering with Imagine I
lower the priority to -1 so that I can use DPaint, write or whatever
w/o slowdown.

I really have a hard time believing that increasing the
priority above 5 will make ANY difference, unless you have a
screensaver or other process running.

Floater

 >>Unfortunately, changetaskpri will only change the priority of programs
 >>launched from the shell.  It is included in Amigados 3.1.
 >>
 >>Jim Rix
 >>
 >Think it's called settaskpri now (or not). Either way, you could set up
 >a script with iconx which sets the priority, then a decent stack size, then
 >launches Imagine. No problem. You could call this ImagineFast or something
 >and only use it when you want to render. Anyone want to comment on running
 >something at a priority of +125? Doesn't that exceed the recommended limit
 >and risk conflicting with OS functions like SCSI access and suchlike?


Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 15:07:49
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Windows 95
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you to all those people that replyed to my request.

I will give the suggestion a try when i log off the net.

Once again thank you all very much


Regards

Phillip

Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 19:55:55
Subject: Bye, for now...
From:    Torgeir Holm <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm leaving for the air force tonight (mandatory military service in Norway),
so I won't be reading this list much the next year or so...

It's been nice, and I hope you'll all be here when I'm back :)


Torge!r

Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 21:03:58
Subject: Re: Bye, for now...
From:    Perry Lucas <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

You do know that the Air Force is connected to the Net?  You can probably
get your email forwarded to a military email address...

--Perry Lucas

At 07:55 PM 9/10/95 +0100, Torgeir Holm wrote:
>I'm leaving for the air force tonight (mandatory military service in Norway),
>so I won't be reading this list much the next year or so...
>
>It's been nice, and I hope you'll all be here when I'm back :)
>
>
>Torge!r
>


Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 21:14:37
Subject: RE:Fotball
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Rod Macey wrote:
Renderbrandt reveals his modelling secrets 8-)

Yepp that's how I made all my objects.......I buy them....NOT.

Nice joke Rod.......Realy!
Bend my ear anytime.

Tom Renderbrandt

Date:    Sunday, 10 September 1995 21:16:38
Subject: Re:Bye, for now
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Torgeir, we will, that is, if you dont shot us first with your jet.
Good luck!
Tom Renderbrandt


Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 00:08:04
Subject: PC Imagine 3.0 textures?
From:    [e-mail] (Dave Jacob)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

HI--
Anyone know if there are any proceedural textures available as shareware
for PC Imagine 3.0?

Thanks.

Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 00:57:40
Subject: Stone Walls
From:    "John Leipold (FA)" <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello All,

I am using Imagine 3.1 for the PC and I can't seem to get any procedural
texture to work for me in this case.  I am trying to make a rough hewn
(sp?) stone wall.  What I want is to have many different sized
rectanguler stones making up a wall.  Much like a castle from the Middle
Ages or the South American temples.  I would even go for ovid stones
like in many Colonial or Shaker chimneys.  I have tried messing with all
sorts of 3D textures from Monster to Pebbeled, but they all have a common
problem; every one is based on horizontal/vertical/diagonal lines.  These
lines are basically continuous, proceeding from one side of the object to
the other.  All of the textures do not seem to be made up of masses but
mathematical squiggly lines with bumps made from those areas defined by
those lines.  I have also noticed this with the Peened texture on another
project.  Is there any texture, or combanation of textures, that will
give me the effect I want?  Or is it best I go with an altituted map of a
self drawn pattern?  Obviously the altitude map will work, but eat a lot
more processor time once combined with the proper coloring.  (I am aready
working with a clyndrical object that has to be mapped and look random,
so already I have a problem with mapping with ONE XYZ axis defining the
whole object, I understand that I might have to break the object into
many sections to altitude map it correctly.  That's another problem, and
that's why a 3D procedural texture would be another advantage.)  Anyway I
ramble too far, but all suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Malignant



Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 01:42:28
Subject: Inv kinematics ??
From:    Scott Krehbiel <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi Everybody!

I've been off the list for a long time and have probably missed
monstrous discussions of this, but:

How the heck do you get the inverse kinematics to work??

I tried the example listed in the on-disk docs that came with
3.3, and when I went into select object mode and tried moving
the tip of the finger, the whole hand moved.  I can't seem to
move just that one part with any constraints on.

Am I making a stupid error, or is the documentation for constraints
just a tad bit vague??

Thanks for any help!
Scott Krehbiel
[e-mail]



Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 06:27:10
Subject: Re: Stone Walls
From:    [e-mail] (Bill Boyce)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Hello All,
>
>I am using Imagine 3.1 for the PC and I can't seem to get any procedural
>texture to work for me in this case.  I am trying to make a rough hewn
>(sp?) stone wall.  What I want is to have many different sized
>rectanguler stones making up a wall.  Much like a castle from the Middle
-SNIP-
>project.  Is there any texture, or combanation of textures, that will
>give me the effect I want?  Or is it best I go with an altituted map of a

Anyone know if PC Essence is out? I've had some great stone walls from that.

>self drawn pattern?  Obviously the altitude map will work, but eat a lot
>more processor time once combined with the proper coloring.  (I am aready

Err, a bump map should be considerable quicker than an algorithmic texture...


Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 07:46:00
Subject: Re: inv kinematics ??
From:    [e-mail] (Stephen Gifford)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>Hi Everybody!
>
>I've been off the list for a long time and have probably missed
>monstrous discussions of this, but:
>
>How the heck do you get the inverse kinematics to work??
>
>I tried the example listed in the on-disk docs that came with
>3.3, and when I went into select object mode and tried moving
>the tip of the finger, the whole hand moved.  I can't seem to
>move just that one part with any constraints on.
>
>Am I making a stupid error, or is the documentation for constraints
>just a tad bit vague??
>
>Thanks for any help!
>Scott Krehbiel
>[e-mail]
>
>
Imagine uses kinematics not inverse kinematics. But there have been several
bones tutorials in previous IML faqs.  Also I think there is one on C-Serve.
You might try the Aminet.

s.g.


Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 11:53:14
Subject: Re: Stone Walls
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


John Leipold writes:
>What I want is to have many different sized
rectanguler stones making up a wall....

and

>I have tried messing with all sorts of 3D textures from Monster to
>Pebbeled, but they all have a common problem; every one is based on horizontal/
>vertical/diagonal lines...

Since I'm PC single tasking just now, I can't check, but I seem to recall
that "Bathtile" allows block staggering, and "Shingles" can be made to
have various sizes, and staggers.

An altitude map would work fairly well.  Of course, you could model
then all :->

Greg Denby

Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 12:49:28
Subject: Re: Video board
From:    Ayalon Hermony <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello,

Should be fine for Imagine. Saw a post a few weeks ago, about a user
and this card with Imagine.

Made some searching myself, before buying two Pentiums lately.
Personally, I'm for the Matrox Millenuim, it gets good reviews on many
areas, and should be in the same price range as #9.
It supports OpenGL, which some 3D programs will support (WinImagine ?...)

The #9 is considered very good too, compare it with Matrox at your dealer.

I ended with two Tseng 4000w32p cards (2M)  for now, untill I can have
a good mail-order info for the Matrox. (and can afford the PAR first...)


                 How do you come back from 3D ?
Ayalon M. Hermony,                      Internet: [e-mail]



On Sat, 9 Sep 1995, Robert Byrne wrote:

> Can anyone recommend a #9 GXI PCI 64 bit Gfx card for use with Imagine on a
> Pentium. A dealer mentioned it as an alternative.
>
> -- Bob
>
>
> :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
> : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :
>
>

Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 17:14:20
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    Kent Marshall Worley <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, needs a finger name. wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 4 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to make an object that doesn't cast shadows (without making i
t
> > transparent)?
> >
> > Of course It'll be Traced, and the light will be set to cast shadows since I

> > want other objects to cast shadows.
> >
> > Alan.
> >
> To not have an object not cast a shadow you need to toggle to 'Do not
> cast shoadows' button on for the lightsource.  Unfortunately all you
> objects will then not cast any shadows.  What you really need is
> Lightwave.  I guess this is a ting to add to future Imagines.
>
> Jim Rix
>
you could render the object separtly then composite into the final
picture using a 24bit paint program. I guess this would be a lot of work
if you are making an animation.
 Kent Worley

Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 17:43:38
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    Kent Marshall Worley <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Robert Byrne wrote:

> On Sep 5 "needs"?? wrote:
>
> > Thomas Ross wrote:
>
> > > At least one person has noted that the downside of PCs is that they slow
> > > down in the middle of rendering a series of frames, ie an animation: some-

> > > thing to do with how they allocate memory. "slow to much slower than my
> > > Amiga." Anyone else notice this?
> > >
>
> > You should know that memory maanagement on PC is not very good.
>
> As soon as I sell my A3000 :(, I'm upgrading? to a P90 for obvious reasons,
> speed. Would large amounts of RAM help overcome this "slow down" problem?
> I'll have 16Mb to start with.
>
> -- Bob
>
>   :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
>   : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :
>
>
I have not notice a slow down on a 486 or a pentium. I have noticed that
the 486 I render on that has 8meg of ram is constantly hitting the hard
drive and the 486 with 16 meg of ram does not and renders faster. I think
ram is what you need. The slow down in the middle of an animation might
be the result of more things going on in those frames. They may have more
textures and brushmaps or the frames may be more full than the earlier
frames.
  Kent Worley

Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 18:15:45
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Mon, 11 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Your answer brings a question to my mind.  As I understand it: the PC does
> not support virtual memory. Therefore there is no reason for either of your
> machines to "hit the hard drive" until the rendering is done. The only
> differance the amount of memory should make is the number of objects and
> textures you can have in you scene.
>

Well, on my Amiga 3000 or the 486, it seems to always do something to the
disk drive, even when rendering a small 320x200 pic with minimal
objects/textures etc.  I believe it actually does save a little bit of
the picture at a time, don't know why, but I think it might.  However,
this of course has no relevance to the virtual memory topic if it is
true... but it might be an explanation for "hitting the drive" :)

Damon


Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 19:01:15
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    Edward Chadez <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a previous letter, [e-mail] wrote:
}
} In a message dated 95-09-11 16:57:16 EDT, [e-mail] (Kent Marshall
} Worley) writes:
}
} >hitting the hard drive
}
} Your answer brings a question to my mind.  As I understand it: the PC does
} not support virtual memory. Therefore there is no reason for either of your
} machines to "hit the hard drive" until the rendering is done. The only
} differance the amount of memory should make is the number of objects and
} textures you can have in you scene.
}

} Again, this is my understanding and I look forward to others either
} confirming, or correcting me.
}

For the Amiga, this is incorrect (as I'm sure a flood of corrections will
follow).  On my Amiga, when I click on "generate" it begins to gobbleup
memory (more memory if it's a scanline, less if it's a trace).  Once the
initialization has finished, it begins the actual render and the hard-drive
light begins flickering (and clicking) as it's writing completed portions of
the frame to disk.  No virtual memory involved.

Now, if I run a virtual memory manager, you can rest assured it's swapping
pages in and out of memory!

} Rick
}
      -Ed
--
Edward Chadez                                     http://galileo.carl.org/
Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst (Systems Integration Team)
CARL Corporation                                             [phone]

Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 19:55:08
Subject: Re: Stone Walls
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, John Leipold (FA) wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I am using Imagine 3.1 for the PC and I can't seem to get any procedural
> texture to work for me in this case.  I am trying to make a rough hewn
> (sp?) stone wall.  What I want is to have many different sized
> rectanguler stones making up a wall.  Much like a castle from the Middle
> Ages or the South American temples.  I would even go for ovid stones

The Essence texture FlagStones would work. Are you on a PC?

>
> Thanks,
>
> Malignant
>
>
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 20:54:56
Subject: Re: inv kinematics ??
From:    [e-mail] (!LuM!)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>Imagine uses kinematics not inverse kinematics. But there have been several
>bones tutorials in previous IML faqs.  Also I think there is one on C-Serve.
>You might try the Aminet.
>
>s.g.
>

Whats the difference?  Geezz I'd like to know...
                                            !LuM!

|------------------------------------------------\
|"World Class Complaining"  [e-mail]\
|Soon to have a Web page. (I wish :)  !NIN!        \
|                                                  /
|Superlink: NJ's Largest Internet Access Provider./
|------------------------------------------------/


Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 22:31:02
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forwarded message:
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
>
> In a message dated 95-09-11 16:57:16 EDT, [e-mail] (Kent Marshall
> Worley) writes:
>
> >hitting the hard drive
>
> Your answer brings a question to my mind.  As I understand it: the PC does
> not support virtual memory. Therefore there is no reason for either of your
> machines to "hit the hard drive" until the rendering is done. The only
> differance the amount of memory should make is the number of objects and
> textures you can have in you scene.
>
> The hard drive activity is possible if rendering an animation as the
> individual rendered frames are saved to disk, and then at the end compiled
> into an animation file.  But this should be the same for both machines,
> irregardless of memory.
>
> Again, this is my understanding and I look forward to others either
> confirming, or correcting me.
>
> Rick
>

The IBM pc version does hit the HD while rendering quite extensively,
the amiga too (but it puts the file in the ram: drive so no HD light
flashes)

Greg Knapp
(delurked)

..sig tba
(actually its gone! lost it from my ~/ dir :( ill make another :)


Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 23:07:16
Subject: Re: inv kinematics ??
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without getting into all of the details of IK, here's a short version.  I
assume you are using the hand.bon object that came with Imagine.

In order for IK to be useable, some part of the object must be anchored or
frozen.  Visualize your bones as a family, parent, children, grandchildren,
etc.. The tips of your fingers are the great, great, ..., grandchildren. The
palm of the hand, most-likely is the parent. In direct kinematics you
manipulate the parents - affecting the children.  In inverse kinematics you
manipulate the children - affecting the parents.  So in IK if you move the
tip of a finger, it will affect all bones up the family tree until you find a
bone that has been frozen. ( It may still have some affects, depending on the
type of freeze)

In select object mode pick the bone in the upper palm of the hand.

Click "Freeze". Click all 6 world boxes.

Click "Constrain". This turns on IK.

Select the bone in the tip of a finger. Move it and see that the palm isn't
affected. Play some more. I find that this model doesn't respond to IK as
well as some I have made, might be the shortness of the fingers. You do get
an idea of how useful this would be if you wanted to place the tip of a
finger on a button or other object.

If you notice the finger bending in strange directions at certain bones, pick
those bones and freeze them in the proper object axis.

Turning off "Constrain" puts you back in direct mode.

Note: Freezing the parent axis, if not an object bone, will not allow you to
use IK to any extent as all the bones and faces move. You must freeze an
object bone.

Rick


Date:    Monday, 11 September 1995 23:25:14
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-11 16:57:16 EDT, [e-mail] (Kent Marshall
Worley) writes:

>hitting the hard drive

Your answer brings a question to my mind.  As I understand it: the PC does
not support virtual memory. Therefore there is no reason for either of your
machines to "hit the hard drive" until the rendering is done. The only
differance the amount of memory should make is the number of objects and
textures you can have in you scene.

The hard drive activity is possible if rendering an animation as the
individual rendered frames are saved to disk, and then at the end compiled
into an animation file.  But this should be the same for both machines,
irregardless of memory.

Again, this is my understanding and I look forward to others either
confirming, or correcting me.

Rick

Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 01:06:52
Subject: Re: IM30 and resolutions
From:    Vance Schowalter <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Randy Auschrat wrote:

>    Is there a way to set the working resolution of Imagine 3.0 for the IBM?
> Or was it a
> feature introduced in the Update program (version 3.1 +)?
>
>   Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>   Randy.
>
>

I couldn't say for the IBM, but I have Imagine 3.0 running in 800x480 on
my Amiga Retina card. I could have it at other resolutions, such as
800x600 or much higher, but I don't really need it any higher, right now.

*******************************************
*    Vance Schowalter >>Image Master<<    *
*                                         *
* Internet: [e-mail] *
*                                         *
*     "Affable little snow creature."     *
*******************************************


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 01:18:47
Subject: IM30 and resolutions
From:    [e-mail] (Randy Auschrat)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Is there a way to set the working resolution of Imagine 3.0 for the IBM?
Or was it a
feature introduced in the Update program (version 3.1 +)?

  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  Randy.


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 02:22:18
Subject: Amiga,PC Drive Access
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Amiga, at least, I know for certain that intetrmittent drive access is
Imagine storing scanlines as they are completed, as I have been able to
recover patrial images when Imagine or the whole shebang crashes on me.
Probably a safe bet that the PC version does the same.
As far as middle frames of an animation rendering slower, I'll bet that
either an object(s) in motion or a camera in motion causes more of the
image to consist of defined objects, rather than background, or that an
object passes 'in front of' another, causing more and longer calcualtions
to be necessary in order to determine the correct color at a given pixel.
JN

Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 06:09:18
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 05:15 PM 11/9/95 -1000, you wrote:
>
>
>On Mon, 11 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
>
>>
>> Your answer brings a question to my mind.  As I understand it: the PC does
>> not support virtual memory. Therefore there is no reason for either of your
>> machines to "hit the hard drive" until the rendering is done. The only
>> differance the amount of memory should make is the number of objects and
>> textures you can have in you scene.
>>
>
>Well, on my Amiga 3000 or the 486, it seems to always do something to the
>disk drive, even when rendering a small 320x200 pic with minimal
>objects/textures etc.  I believe it actually does save a little bit of
>the picture at a time, don't know why, but I think it might.  However,
>this of course has no relevance to the virtual memory topic if it is
>true... but it might be an explanation for "hitting the drive" :)
>
>Damon
>
Ok, as I understand it Imagine functions similarly on Pc and Amiga, with one
difference, quickrenders.

Imagine accesses the hard disk for the following files *while* it renders,
rather than pre-loading :

1. The generated image is written to disk in chunks as it is rendered,
except for quickrenders which are often sent to RAM on the Amiga (depending
on the path setting in your config file)

2. The global backdrop (not the global map) is loaded bit by bit during the
render.

3. When field rendering, Imagine writes the first field into it's program
directory, then the second field (sperate file), then interleaves them as
it writes the final file to the subproject destination path. So make sure
you have enough space on your program partition for slightly more than one
full image when you are field rendering.

4. Err, that's it actually. There is no 4. Go back to 1 if you haven't
had enough! Please let us know if I've missed anything.

Everything else - brushmaps, texture algorithms, objects, reflection maps
etc etc is loaded into ram before "generating" begins - then dumped after-
wards and reloaded usually for the next frame in the project, one of my
pet hates with the way Imagine renders, and ditto for the stage editor
(quickstage just doesn't cut it!)

Presumable in V4, when we get autosizing of backdrop images (sigh), these
too will be preloaded (ie, you'll need more RAM. But it'll be worth it!)

Bill Boyce


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 10:12:19
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Sauvageau)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>On Tue, 5 Sep 1995, needs a finger name. wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> > Is it possible to make an object that doesn't cast shadows (without
making it
>> > transparent)?
>> >
>> > Of course It'll be Traced, and the light will be set to cast shadows
since I
>> > want other objects to cast shadows.
>> >
>> > Alan.
>> >
>> To not have an object not cast a shadow you need to toggle to 'Do not
>> cast shoadows' button on for the lightsource.  Unfortunately all you
>> objects will then not cast any shadows.  What you really need is
>> Lightwave.  I guess this is a ting to add to future Imagines.
>>
>> Jim Rix
>>
>you could render the object separtly then composite into the final
>picture using a 24bit paint program. I guess this would be a lot of work
>if you are making an animation.
> Kent Worley

If you have to compositing in an animation, you can save yourself a lot of
work by using previously rendered frame as backdrop.

example: you make a 30 frame anim of a bee flying in a room.

1- make the staging as usual.

2- when ready for the final render, change the number of frames to 60, and
change all "BAR" for the bee from 1-30 to 31-60 and add a "global" actor in
the range 31-60, specifing as backdrop image
".../BeeProject.imp/final.pix/pic" and 30 as "max frame count (or some thing
like that"

Do not forget to make a copy all your light setting from 1-30 to 31-60. copy
also the ambient lighting and the global fog.

now, you just have to render, the machine will do all the work for you (ie:
compositing the frame 1 with th frame 31, 2 with 32 etc.

This also have the advantage of using a lot less memory and not much more
rendering time. (but it take a LOT of HD space)



-----
Patrick Sauvageau
([e-mail])


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 11:20:45
Subject: Brush,Image map tip
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello guys

I've used 3.3/3.4beta for a while now, and I have discovered something that
would speed up intialiasing the rendering and the attribute redraw.
Since I use both the Pc version as well as the Amiga, I tought that using a pc
file format for my brushes/pictures was a good idea, it is not........
Targa/tiff takes very long time to load, so by using the Amiga native file
format .iff, it speeds up the redraw time and rendering intialiasing by a factor

of ca. 3 to 1, that is 3 times faster than the targa or tiff format. The only
downside with .iff and Imagine is that you cant use very large image maps, the
limit seems to be around 750X600.But in these cases you can mix and match file
formats. Most image prossesors on pc's can export iff.

Tom Renderbrandt

Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 15:09:11
Subject: Re: Stone Walls
From:    Marty K <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, John Leipold (FA) wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I am using Imagine 3.1 for the PC and I can't seem to get any procedural
> texture to work for me in this case.  I am trying to make a rough hewn
> (sp?) stone wall.  What I want is to have many different sized
> rectanguler stones making up a wall.  Much like a castle from the Middle
> Ages or the South American temples.

Doesn't Imagine PC have the Old bricks procedural texture? It is very
slow (maybe the slowest of them all), but it produces very nice irregular
bricks. Of course you can use bathtile, but it might be too
'perfect' for your project.

> project.  Is there any texture, or combanation of textures, that will
> give me the effect I want?

If the regularity of Bathtile doesn't bother you, try using Bumpnoise or
even Concrete with it.

  Or is it best I go with an altituted map of a
> self drawn pattern?  Obviously the altitude map will work, but eat a lot
> more processor time once combined with the proper coloring.

Brushmaps are rendered much faster than procedural textures - at least on
the Amiga. The trouble with altitude mapping is that there is a bug in
repeat mode. You get these thin borders between each copy of the altitude
map. In case of bricks, this is no trouble, though. Anyone know if this
bug will be fixed in 4.0?
Also, repeat function doesn't work with cylinder mapping.
Yet another bug with altitude mapping: It doesn't work with lock states.
Impulse, please correct these!


__    __  __  _ __  ___  _____  __ __ _  __    __    "Nothing is real"
'=\/T/='  I|\/| //\ I| )/ I| \\_/  I|/   '=\T\/='    mk-tel.sik.ppoy.fi
  /^^   * I|  |//~~\I|~\  I|  I|   I|\  *   ^^\        Pori, FINLAND
          ~~  ~~~  ~~~  ~ ~~  ~~   ~~ ~          http://www.ppoy.fi/~mk-tel


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 15:10:43
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I read the initial post about "hitting the hard drive during rendering" on a
bright, sunny morning.  As is my habit, I went to Imagine to double check my
answer before my reply. I rendered a simple scene and saw no flickering of
hard drive activity. Hence my answer.

Later that evening, I retrieved my mail, and upon reading about my
"incorrectness" I returned to Imagine.  I rendered a scene of about 20 simple
objects, a textured object and high resolution. With no other lights in the
room on, I noticed some dim flickering of the hard drive light and no
noticable noise. Not exactly "hitting the hard drive hard" but none the less
there is hard drive activity. I stand corrected. The differance WAS night and
day.

Thank all for their knowledge.

Rick

Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 15:20:24
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    Marty K <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Edward Chadez wrote:

> For the Amiga, this is incorrect (as I'm sure a flood of corrections will
> follow).  On my Amiga, when I click on "generate" it begins to gobbleup
> memory (more memory if it's a scanline, less if it's a trace).  Once the
> initialization has finished, it begins the actual render and the hard-drive
> light begins flickering (and clicking) as it's writing completed portions of
> the frame to disk.  No virtual memory involved.
>
This is true. Except that my Imagine on my Amiga eats lots more RAM when
initializing a trace than when initializing a scanline render. Sometimes
the amount of memory that is consumed when initializing is many times
greater than the amount of memory that is needed to load the objects and
textures. This is somewhat annoying. For example, I can only render some
five 300 Kb trees (using a simple particle for leaves) with 18 megs of RAM!
Even without particles I can only trace a scene with some 3 Mb of object
data.

Marty

__    __  __  _ __  ___  _____  __ __ _  __    __    "Nothing is real"
'=\/T/='  I|\/| //\ I| )/ I| \\_/  I|/   '=\T\/='    mk-tel.sik.ppoy.fi
  /^^   * I|  |//~~\I|~\  I|  I|   I|\  *   ^^\        Pori, FINLAND
          ~~  ~~~  ~~~  ~ ~~  ~~   ~~ ~          http://www.ppoy.fi/~mk-tel


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 15:50:03
Subject: Are there any IML members around Vancouver or San Francisco?
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The subject line says it all. Please reply through e-mail at
[e-mail], to avoid cluttering up the IML. Thanks.

P.S. I'm away until Wed. Sep. 27. After a bit of brouhaha last time, I
figured it was better NOT to create a separate message for this little fact.


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 16:19:51
Subject: Stone Walls
From:    Charles Blaquiere <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From: John Leipold (FA) <[e-mail]>
>
> Obviously the altitude map will work, but eat a lot more processor time
> once combined with the proper coloring.

I believe that apart from the simplest textures, a brushmap will always
be faster, since the effect is precalculated, and all Imagine has to do
is take a weighted average of 4 brushmap pixels (anti-aliasing, ya know)
to come up with the desired result. Most texture algorithms will need
much more processing to determine the value of an object pixel.


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 17:09:59
Subject: RE:Brush,Image map tip
From:    [e-mail] (The Prophet)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I always convert the brushmaps to 24bit Impulse format.
Doesn't Imagine have to convert the Targa/TIFF/IFF to
its own format anyway?

Jaeson K.
 ____            ____            _           _
( |  \          ( /  \          ( )       _ / )
 )|   )_   __    /   /_   _  __  /   __  ( X_)
( |  /~ \ /\_)  /---~/ ) / )/  )/~\ /\_)  / _
 )ll/  l/ \__ (/   (/   (_//__//  / \__  (___)
(____________)        (___/        (___)

Jaeson Koszarsky                  Amiga 3000+
----------------                  -----------
[e-mail]              68040/30Mhz
[e-mail]                24Megs-1GIG
[e-mail]            OS3.1

Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 18:21:08
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Damon LaCaille wrote:

>
>
>
> Well, on my Amiga 3000 or the 486, it seems to always do something to the
> disk drive, even when rendering a small 320x200 pic with minimal
> objects/textures etc.  I believe it actually does save a little bit of
> the picture at a time, don't know why, but I think it might.  However,
> this of course has no relevance to the virtual memory topic if it is
> true... but it might be an explanation for "hitting the drive" :)

When Imagine makes an image, it creates each line separately, and then
saves them all into the same file as it goes along, to free as much
memory as possible for the objects, textures, brushmaps, particles, etc.,
etc., on ad infinitum...

>
> Damon
>
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 19:50:49
Subject: Cloud Cover Annoyance
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Hello everyone.  I'm working on a space scene right now (I know,

"Wow! That's an original Idea Dave!").  Anyway the problem I'm having is
with the cloud cover on my planet.  I have two spheres, one for the planet
and one for the cloud cover the planet renders fine and with certain settings
my cloud cover renders fine isn't what I'm after in appearance.  The clouds are

just not real enough.  Now, when I get the clouds to a setting where they
should
be how I want them something strange happens.  It seems that when rendered
the area of the sphere DIRECTLY facing the lightsource (I only have one)
vanishes and the rest of the sphere is white and faceted.  I have phong
shading on
and my sphere has a fractal noise cylindrical map with genlock on so that
the black
in my image is invisible.

                The only thing I am changing is the fog length of the object
so that I can
get the thinning atmosphere look.  Otherwise the edge of my atmosphere just
stops dead (which looks really bad).  If any one has something to suggest please
do so.  I've been playing with this for over a week now.  Thanks.


Date:    Tuesday, 12 September 1995 23:12:38
Subject: Re: Amiga, PC
From:    Mike McCool <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> When Imagine makes an image, it creates each line separately, and then
> saves them all into the same file as it goes along, to free as much
> memory as possible for the objects, textures, brushmaps, particles, etc.,
> etc., on ad infinitum...
>

Which equals drive-thrashing.  Just watch your HD light, if you don't
believe me.  My 3000 runs all night rendering, and it used to wake us up,
flashing like a strobe light.

My poor HD.  Fix?  Render to a recoverable ram drive, and have an image
processor laying in wait to save out the frames in toto as they're
rendered.  Your HD will love you for it.

Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 00:16:31
Subject: RE:Brush/Image map tip
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a proggie out for Amiga I've been toying around with, called
"AutoPeg.lha" which converts any JPEG image accessed into an IFF 24, then
sends the IFF 24 to the task trying to read the file.  I've had moderate
success with it so far, and will note my final opinion of it out here in
a week or so.  A 100% JPEG is a serious space gain over a 24 IFF, and, for
single frame use, the 10-30 seconds in conversion are a tolerable trade-off
for a 20-60% savings of space. (I have over 12 megs of maps in my "WRAPS:"
directory, and am thrilled with the possibility of crushing them all, instead
of just the 4 megs or so that are fully inactive)
Toodle-ooh
Joel

Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 01:50:14
Subject: PC anims
From:    Duncan <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Could anyone suggest a FLC player for the PC -preferably free/pd etc
that i could use to play looping anims from a batch file
 i have done some anims for someone and i converted them to mpeg -as
the bloke has an mpeg card on his PC but it will not play a loop with
out 'stuttering' at the end/loop i have recompiled the anim as an .FLC
but i cannot find my way round FTP PC archives to get a suitable player

 also is there a way to convert imagine/animation files to use in some
kind of PC screen blanker afterdark or similar or is it just a matter of
converting to the correct format ??


 as you might have guessed i use an amiga

  TIA

   Duncan
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 \\                           [e-mail]                      \\
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 09:55:22
Subject: Re: Brush,Image map tip
From:    "needs a finger name." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Tue, 12 Sep 1995, Granberg Tom wrote:

> Hello guys
>
> I've used 3.3/3.4beta for a while now, and I have discovered something that
> would speed up intialiasing the rendering and the attribute redraw.
> Since I use both the Pc version as well as the Amiga, I tought that using a pc

> file format for my brushes/pictures was a good idea, it is not........
> Targa/tiff takes very long time to load, so by using the Amiga native file
> format .iff, it speeds up the redraw time and rendering intialiasing by a fact
or
> of ca. 3 to 1, that is 3 times faster than the targa or tiff format. The only

> downside with .iff and Imagine is that you cant use very large image maps, the

> limit seems to be around 750X600.But in these cases you can mix and match file

> formats. Most image prossesors on pc's can export iff.
>
> Tom Renderbrandt
>
I have successfully used 2880x1440 iffs on my Amiga 4000.  Of course it
has 36 mb of memory.

Jim Rix

Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 10:55:17
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail] (Attila Montvai)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Subject: HD light

Hi light watcher,

I'm pleased to see. that so many people
watch the HD acces indicator. But my
suggestion would be to read some good
books, go walking and watch the birds,
etc while rendering. On some platforms
you do have enough time for that.

Re.: > When Imagine makes an image,

Attila
[e-mail]

==============================================================

      |-00000-------|
      |0-------000-0|
      |---0000------|  1.2 Hz(!)  ABACUS, 11 rows, 13 spheres
      |---------0000|           of different colors on each
      |             |
      |             |
     ---           ---
===============================================================

Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 14:23:31
Subject: Re:Brush map tip II
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jim Rix wrote:
I have successfully used 2880x1440 iffs on my Amiga 4000.  Of course it
has 36 mb of memory.

Yes this is true, but if you try that stunt on a pc you'll get this
nessage:Error loading brush bla.bla.

Tom Renderbrandt


Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 15:31:50
Subject: Re: PC anims
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-12 23:59:15 EDT, you write:

>Could anyone suggest a FLC player

For windows find AAWIN.EXE. It will play flc. and fli. files in windows. It
is distributable.

Imagine comes with a Dos player. I'm not sure if it's freeware or what.

In windows Visual Basic lets you create screen savers from flc. or avi.
files. Trouble is that unless it is a small animation that you can load into
memory, the entire time that the screen saver is active the hard drive will
be running.

Rick

Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 20:19:13
Subject: HD Light
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Montvai:
>suggestion would be to read some good
>books, go walking and watch the birds,
Actually, I read an average of 500 pages per day, usually sci-fi, but have
found that an occasional glance at the HD light will help me tell when an
image has completed processing 8^)
Joel

Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 20:22:42
Subject: Brush Maps
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Jim Rix wrote:
>I have successfully used 2880x1440 iffs on my Amiga 4000.  Of course it
>has 36 mb of memory.

No offense, but what the hell do you need with a brush map that large?
couldn't you just scale it down to about 25% or less with no noticeable
difference?
JN

Date:    Wednesday, 13 September 1995 22:56:00
Subject: Which Display Board?
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I was just authorized to buy four Pentiums for our school graphics
lab. The 133Mhz machines I'm looking at either have Matrox MGA
Millenniums, Number Nine Imagine 128s, or Diamond Stealth 64s
graphics boards. I know the Diamond Stealth is a good board and
compatible with Imagine, but the other two were more highly
recommended by PC Magazine and I wonder if anyone here has used them?

Also, this same mag recommended most highly the Tangent Mediastar,
amongst all the Pentiums, but I've never even heard of Tangent. Has
anyone here used a Tangent?

Finally, I have generally found that 16 Megs is pretty adequate for
running Imagine on my Amiga, so I'm planning on the same for the
Pentiums. Any other suggestions?

Floater

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 01:05:50
Subject: Impulse's metaball pic...
From:    Bush Doktor <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Anybody check out the picture Mike H. from impulse, put up on
aminet?  It's called "alienart.lha" I believe.  It's supposed to
show the use of metaballs in 4.0.

Bush
*************************************************** University of Dreadlands
*http://ebhon.jnst.uor.edu/Users/doktor* Blowing the FULL watts twenty years!

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 01:53:41
Subject: Re: HD Light
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have managed on the PC platform to reduce Imagines accessing the hard drive
so often by enabling Smartdrive with delayed write.  Rendering times improved
from 10-30% also.

Forrest

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 05:22:30
Subject: Re:
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>At 11:55 AM 13/9/95 +0200, Attila Montvai wrote:
>
>==============================================================
>
>      |-00000-------|
>      |0-------000-0|
>      |---0000------|  1.2 Hz(!)  ABACUS, 11 rows, 13 spheres
>      |---------0000|           of different colors on each
>      |             |
>      |             |
>     ---           ---
>===============================================================
>
But does it multitask ???


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 05:34:07
Subject: Re: Brush Maps
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 07:22 PM 13/9/95 -0400, you wrote:
>>Jim Rix wrote:
>>I have successfully used 2880x1440 iffs on my Amiga 4000.  Of course it
>>has 36 mb of memory.
>
>No offense, but what the hell do you need with a brush map that large?
>couldn't you just scale it down to about 25% or less with no noticeable
>difference?
>JN

Not if he was rendering for film or print.


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 07:21:19
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail] (Attila Montvai)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course!!!

You can sing, talk, .... while tossing the balls.

attila

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Bil Boyce wrote:

>At 11:55 AM 13/9/95 +0200, Attila Montvai wrote:
>
>==============================================================
>
>      |-00000-------|
>      |0-------000-0|
>      |---0000------|  1.2 Hz(!)  ABACUS, 11 rows, 13 spheres
>      |---------0000|           of different colors on each
>      |             |
>      |             |
>     ---           ---
>===============================================================
>
But does it multitask ???

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 08:05:52
Subject: Failed send
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Hi, can somebody tell me why I have a failed send for a message?

I sent out a message about a problem I'm having, last tnight I saw it posted
in my mailbox, then tonight I find a NON-DELIVERY message from
[e-mail].   What does this mean?
Did anybody get the message I sent about Cloud Cover Annoyance?


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 08:27:00
Subject: What's cool about AlienArt.jpg
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just dl'd the picture.  Try modelling that object with the standard
Imagine modelers and I think that you might go a little crazy.  The
shadows are indeed interesting, but check out the texture on the
pedestal.  It looks like it's that PC texture (that we didn't get
on the Amiga platform.  snif.)  called 'caustic' I think.  As well,
there are funny rings on the surface where the balls contact it.
The metallic attributes do look quite nice, as well.

The star map in the backgound looks ok.
The image is only 56k, so it dl's pretty quick.
\KenR


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 10:04:49
Subject: Re: Which Display Board?
From:    "Scott J. Geertgens" <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Wed, 13 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> I was just authorized to buy four Pentiums for our school graphics
> lab. The 133Mhz machines I'm looking at either have Matrox MGA
> Millenniums, Number Nine Imagine 128s, or Diamond Stealth 64s
> graphics boards. I know the Diamond Stealth is a good board and
> compatible with Imagine, but the other two were more highly
> recommended by PC Magazine and I wonder if anyone here has used them?
  I use a 2meg Diamond Stealth 64 VRAM, and would recommend it as a good
card for both DOS and Windows performance. It has been ranked pretty high
in the past, and has only recently been beaten out by some of the newer
cards in terms of performance. I personally would suggest avoiding the
Matrox. I've read that they have blazing Windows performance but suffer
greatly under DOS. This won't do unless WinImagine makes a quick
appearance. I've heard very little about the wave of 128-bit cards, so I
can't help you there.

> Finally, I have generally found that 16 Megs is pretty adequate for
> running Imagine on my Amiga, so I'm planning on the same for the
> Pentiums. Any other suggestions?
   16Megs seems to work fine for me, but I don't do large projects either.



                                      SJG


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 11:44:51
Subject: Re:Which Display Board?
From:    Jeremy Peter Hopkin <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sorry I can't help you with the display cards, but about the memory you were
suggesting......

I believe that you should purchase EDO Ram as opposed to regular DRAM as it
is much better(and generally only better) when the processor starts jumping
out of cache, and fetching from main memory. If you have 16M and are using
it, my guess is main memory will be accessed freqently esp. on a 133MHz P
which should fly though 'tracing, so you should see a noticable increase
in speed.

Also it depends what type of textures you'll using, as Essence and Forge aren't
out on PC(If they are, tell me! Tell Me!....) so that cuts down procedural
textures quite a bit. So you may use more brush-maps which use lots of memory.

Also if you've got speed to spare you may want to create something more
elaborate which = more memory.

So it depends on how seriously heavy the raytracing in you graphics labs will
be. Also if you dabble with other raytracers, Lightwave wants Win NT or 95, and
16Meg min, and 3DStudio(don't bother, its naff) also craves 16Meg. And finally
there is the budget, could it strech?

That's just my penny, cent etc. worth.

Jeremy

PS I hope you're getting 17inch monitors or better.

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 12:18:28
Subject: Re: Impulse's metaball pic
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bush Doktor asks:
>Anybody check out the picture Mike H. from impulse, put up om
>aminet?  It's calle "alienart.lha" I believe.

Thanks for reminding me, I forgot to d-load it.  It's AlienArt.jpg
in aminet/gfx/3d.  The "sculpture" represented is pretty casual in
construction, just a blobbly form that might be some sort of quadruped,
so it doesn't really shop what might be possible.  The metaballs do
have metallic attributes; gold, copper, silver placed on them.  The
boundaries of the attribs stop midway between the various balls.  It
will be interesting to see how brushes wrap on them (can't wait, can't
wait).

The soft shadows are very nice, very subtle.  They seem so natural that
you don't even notice them, they fit in so well.

The rest of the pic is just a platform in a nice space backdrop, good
nebula, etc.

Well, got to get back to watching my drive light flicker
Greg Denby

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 14:17:04
Subject: Re: Minds Eye
From:    "Anime a day..." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> A few months ago somebody wrote something about two or three movies with
> "Minds Eye" in the title. Now I have got a chance to buy two movies called
> "Gate to the Minds Eye" and "Beyond the Minds Eye".
>
> What are they? Stories? Conceptual movies? Raytracing from beginning to
> end? Or what?
>
> Are they worth to buy? That's basically what I want to know.
>

  The first Mind's Eye was very inspirational.  I have seen the second,
and it didn't move me as much as the first one.  If there is a third, I
hope it has the same vigor as the first.  I believe 'Beyond..' was the
second.. the first is just called , the Mind's Eye if I recall correctly.

Bill




Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 15:58:11
Subject: Minds Eye
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few months ago somebody wrote something about two or three movies with=20
"Minds Eye" in the title. Now I have got a chance to buy two movies called=20
"Gate to the Minds Eye" and "Beyond the Minds Eye".

What are they? Stories? Conceptual movies? Raytracing from beginning to=20
end? Or what?

Are they worth to buy? That's basically what I want to know.

*---------------------------------------------------------------*
|   Conny Joensson   |   Swedish Space Corp. Esrange            |
|   Kiruna           |   Satellite operations - Telecom Div.    |
|   Sweden           |   [e-mail]              |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 16:12:56
Subject: RE: Which Display Board?
From:    Jeff Hanna <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just remember that EDO RAM is only usable by certain PCI systems (and =
not by ANY 486 systems). The system MUST have a chipset that understands =
EDO RAM. I know Intels Triton chipset does, but I am sure there are =
others.

A good rule of thumb is "If your system didn't come with EDO RAM, it =
probably cannot use it."


>I believe that you should purchase EDO Ram as opposed to regular DRAM =
as it
>is much better(and generally only better) when the processor starts =
jumping
>out of cache, and fetching from main memory. If you have 16M and are =
using
>it, my guess is main memory will be accessed freqently esp. on a 133MHz
>which should fly though 'tracing, so you should see a noticable =
increase
>in speed.

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 16:13:34
Subject: Re: Minds Eye
From:    Edward Chadez <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a previous letter, [e-mail] wrote:
}
} A few months ago somebody wrote something about two or three movies with
} "Minds Eye" in the title. Now I have got a chance to buy two movies called
} "Gate to the Minds Eye" and "Beyond the Minds Eye".
}

The series is composed of three volumes:

I.    The Minds Eye
II.   Beyond the Minds eye, featuring music by Jan Hammer
III.  The Gate to the Minds Eye, featuring music by Thomas Dolby

All three titles are available on VHS or LaserDisc (in the U.S., at least).
They are also availble in a VHS 3-pack (I've seen it at Suncoast).  There
is also a 3-pack of the first two and another title which I am not familar
with.

Note that there are two versions of the orignal "Minds Eye."  The "official
version" and a shorter version with a few different clips that was sold
(for the same price) by Radio Shack (here in the U.S.).

I own the first two volumes on VHS, and "The Gate" on CAV LD.

The music for the second and third volumes are available on CD.  The music
for the first may be, too.

} What are they? Stories? Conceptual movies? Raytracing from beginning to
} end? Or what?
}

All three movies are composed of bits and clips of different very-fine
computer animations which were originally generated for industrial,
commercial, entertainment, etc. use.  Some you have probably seen, others
you haven't.  Most (I believe) were rendered in high-end mainframes.

You can think of each volume as a music album.  Each song on a volume has
different (but simular in theme) computer animations spliced together.

The third tries to tie in the whole vhs tape/LD as one story (you'll need
to read the package/jacket for a full description).  In my opionion, "The
Gate" is the best yet.  The animation is, naturally, more advanced than
earlier volumes.  The "theme'ing" seems to work (at least on side 1 of the
LD).  And I'm a big Thomas Dolby fan.

} Are they worth to buy? That's basically what I want to know.
}

This really depends on how much like computer generated images.  Personally,
I fell in love with CGI when Tron came out (and we all know how well Tron
represented CG ;-)  I've been a "weekend-render'er" for many many years
now.  I grab everything I can which exhibits computer animation.

In my opinion, the whole "Minds Eye" series is the best of the best.  There
are other tapes which show off CGI, but they don't do it as well as Mirimax
(or is it Mirimar?) does in this series.

If you are unwaivered by my own testominal, then I recommend you try to
rent them and see for yourself.

      -Ed

I am neither employed by, nor receive any compensation from Mirimar
(Mirimax?).  Hell, I can't even remember their exact name.  :-)
--
Opinions percieved here are not necessarily shared by those I work for.
Edward Chadez                                     http://galileo.carl.org/
Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst (Systems Integration Team)
CARL Corporation                                             [phone]

Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 18:28:01
Subject: Re: Minds Eye
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Anime a day... wrote:

>   The first Mind's Eye was very inspirational.  I have seen the second,
> and it didn't move me as much as the first one.  If there is a third, I
> hope it has the same vigor as the first.  I believe 'Beyond..' was the
> second.. the first is just called , the Mind's Eye if I recall correctly.
>
> Bill

Everyone here might also want to try "Virtual Nature" from the
Nature Company.  It features 3-d rendered scenes made on MACs, SGIs, PCs,
etc.  Didn't see an Amiga in the credits, but then again I wasn't looking
too closely.  Very impressive!  Especially the falling leaves and leaves
under water thing - much too real.

Damon


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 21:13:38
Subject: Re: Failed send
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 01:05 AM 14/9/95 -0600, you wrote:
>                Hi, can somebody tell me why I have a failed send for a
message?
>I sent out a message about a problem I'm having, last tnight I saw it posted
>in my mailbox, then tonight I find a NON-DELIVERY message from
>[e-mail].   What does this mean?
>Did anybody get the message I sent about Cloud Cover Annoyance?
>
Yeah, I've been getting those for almost every message I send lately. Pain
in the
***. The messages still seem to get out to the IML, they seem to be bouncing as
the IML relay sends them on to compuserve??? Is anyone looking into this?


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 21:18:08
Subject: Re: What's cool about AlienArt.jpg
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 07:27 AM 14/9/95 PDT, you wrote:
>I just dl'd the picture.  Try modelling that object with the standard
>Imagine modelers and I think that you might go a little crazy.  The
>shadows are indeed interesting, but check out the texture on the
>pedestal.  It looks like it's that PC texture (that we didn't get
>on the Amiga platform.  snif.)  called 'caustic' I think.  As well,

Don't sniff - get essence!!

>there are funny rings on the surface where the balls contact it.

Ripple (wave) texture radiating from each foot

>The metallic attributes do look quite nice, as well.
>
>The star map in the backgound looks ok.
>The image is only 56k, so it dl's pretty quick.
>\KenR
>


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 21:21:32
Subject: Re: Cloud Cover Annoyance
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 12:50 PM 12/9/95 -0600, you wrote:
>                Hello everyone.  I'm working on a space scene right now (I
know,
>"Wow! That's an original Idea Dave!").  Anyway the problem I'm having is
>with the cloud cover on my planet.  I have two spheres, one for the planet
>and one for the cloud cover the planet renders fine and with certain settings
>my cloud cover renders fine isn't what I'm after in appearance.  The clouds
are
>just not real enough.  Now, when I get the clouds to a setting where they
>should
>be how I want them something strange happens.  It seems that when rendered
>the area of the sphere DIRECTLY facing the lightsource (I only have one)
>vanishes and the rest of the sphere is white and faceted.  I have phong
>shading on
>and my sphere has a fractal noise cylindrical map with genlock on so that
>the black
>in my image is invisible.
>
>                The only thing I am changing is the fog length of the object
>so that I can
>get the thinning atmosphere look.  Otherwise the edge of my atmosphere just
>stops dead (which looks really bad).  If any one has something to suggest
please
>do so.  I've been playing with this for over a week now.  Thanks.

The only thing I have had trouble with (just finished a big project doing just
this) is making the planet and the atmosphere the same size and position. The
polygons interfere in weird ways. Kinda obvious, but that's all I got ...
Good Luck


Date:    Thursday, 14 September 1995 22:08:31
Subject: Re: Minds Eye
From:    Sharky <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> A few months ago somebody wrote something about two or three movies with
> "Minds Eye" in the title. Now I have got a chance to buy two movies called
> "Gate to the Minds Eye" and "Beyond the Minds Eye".
>
> What are they? Stories? Conceptual movies? Raytracing from beginning to
> end? Or what?
>
> Are they worth to buy? That's basically what I want to know.
>

Basically the Mind's Eye videos have a number of short CG animations
strung together with music. You may have seen them before but the
compilations are nice and the music is excellent.  The first one was music
by Jan Hammer and not sure on the second.  The third Gateway to the Minds
Eye has a bit more of a theme to it and the music is mostly Thomas Dolby
stuff. I enjoyed the last one a lot, it has some pretty hot garphics and
music.

The CG on these videos are pretty top notch and the music to go with them
is pretty hot as well. Just my opinion....

Aloha,
      Sharky

[e-mail]/CIS#70614,2011 __   v  Home Page : http://aloha.com/~sharky
WebSurfer & Fun Guy,Funky    __/  \ >*< Home Server:http://www.websharx.com
WWW Page Designs,       ____/    ) | ^  Hawaii Related Links and Etcetera's,
Tech. Planning  /\_____/          } \   3D Modelling & Animation Art,Objects
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(_________ALOHA!_______)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 00:19:09
Subject: RE: Shading Bands
From:    Jeff Hanna <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sep 18,  9:35pm, [e-mail] wrote:
>

> I agree with using ADPro dithering, which CAN be used, i believe, by =
selecting
> "Apply Map", then saving the resulting 24 bit file.
> JN
>-- End of excerpt from [e-mail]


>ADPro does not dither 24 bit images.  Why would it?  It does need to =
fake any
>colors- they are all represented in the 24 bits of color information.
>
>It only dithers lower color resolution images to make them look like 24 =
bit.
 >When it dithers, it trades spatial resolution for color resolution.
>
>I don't understand this thread.  The original poster was looking at a =
24 bit
>image with 65,000 colors.  When you lower color resolution without =
dithering,
>you will get banding on large areas with slight color variation.  This =
is
>obvious.
>
>24 bit represents all colors available to you.  No banding will occur =
when you
>display a true 24 bit image on true 24 bit devices, so there is no need =
to
>dither anything.


Sorry, but for the last time, your wrong. with only 256 available shades =
of each primary color (RGB), solid objects of those primary colors, and =
ones of black/grey/white will appear banded even when rendered at 24 =
bit.

Do the math. 256R x 256G x 256B =3D 16.7M all colors. What do you think =
that 256R is? It's the available shades of Red. a solid red object only =
has 8 bits of color attributable to it. This means that at best, even on =
a 24bit display, it will have 256 available shades.

If 24bit gives you all colors (which it doesn't) why is there a 48bit =
TIFF format? Not that it's widely used, granted.



Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 03:53:00
Subject: Lightwave mail list
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know this is way off topic for Imagine, but I know many Imagineersalso use Lig
htwave.Does anyone have current subscription info for the Lightwave Mailinglist?
 I know it changed, and I thought the address was:[e-mail]
t I keep getting a bounce from my mail server saying it doesn'texist. Any help w
ould be appreciated.Please Email me instead of posting to the list. Thanks.   /-
-----------------------------           ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der Som
men                     / __  /__/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.
            /___/ / \  /  /  /     / \  | [e-mail]
    HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |           "Blackouts make for nice breaks in the
day"   \_____________________________________________________________--- =FE Int
erNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 08:06:18
Subject: Imagine won't run!!!  HELP!!!!
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Hi all, I've got a big problem here.  My system crashed
and the only way I could fix it was to re-install Win95.  Now my
imagine won't run.  When I load it it says "Abnormal Program
termination.  Please remember what you were doing and contact
Impulse".  Any ideas before I try the Gods?  I don't want to pay
LD charges yet, I'm too broke right now.


Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 09:30:02
Subject: UNSUB Requests
From:    [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



This week, I lost my work area to a recontstruction project.

I lost power, network connections, telephone... thwe whole
shootin match. Just got it back this morning to over 1350 email
messages being lovingly saved.  :-/

This means that if you have sent in an UNSUB request this
week, it is in process right now. You should be properly
unsubscribed by the end of the weekend.

We will be going to an automated process isn the near future.

I will announce any changes that will affect you sometime
before the end of the month. Please do not email me for information
regarding this until that time.

Again, UNSUB requests will process sometime in the next day or two.

You do not need to resend your request at this time.


Thanks for your patience. I know this has tried mine.  :-)


Dave Wickard  [phone]   "You can check out anytime
[e-mail]     you'd like, but you can never
[e-mail]    leave."  -The Eagles
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 09:42:51
Subject: Everything is white exept the background !
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

FROM too long. Original FROM is '[e-mail] (Jacques DEMARE -
 SSI - Southern Europe Solution Center)'

----------------------  Original Message Follows  ----------------------

Hi all, I've got a strange problem here with Imagine 3.0.

I've made a logo, first with no particular attribute, just a color,
and tried to render it => the background has the right color, but
the logo renders in gray shades no matter if I render in scanline
or trace mode !!!

I've already tried several attributes and even a map brush but with
no result until now... For information, the logo was modelised in
Imagine 3.0 in the spline editor (importing psfonts) and also rendered
with it.

I can see nothing in the manual and really cannot understand what
happens, so if somebody has an idee, please feel free to reply, it
will soon become urgent, it's a logo for an Amiga Show here in France,
the next spring. Scoop : it's name : AMIGA Spring'96.

Thanks in advance, have a good day !

                                              Jacques DEMARE.

Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 12:09:52
Subject: The 3rd in the  Minds Eye video series (was RE: Mind Eye)
From:    James Cheseborough <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 1st video Minds Eye is better than EITHER the 2nd (Beyond...) or the
3rd (The Gate to The minds eye).

I'm really into music too. The music on the 1st is awesome, and went
straight downhill after that! :-(

Now #3 *IS* better than the second, and has some state of the art
animation that is totally awesome. They give you some 3" by 5" cards to
order the COMPLETE video (all are just clips) from the creator. That's cool.
But it just doesn't have the cohesiveness or flow that #1 did...


On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Anime a day... wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > A few months ago somebody wrote something about two or three movies with
> > "Minds Eye" in the title. Now I have got a chance to buy two movies called
> > "Gate to the Minds Eye" and "Beyond the Minds Eye".
> >
> > What are they? Stories? Conceptual movies? Raytracing from beginning to
> > end? Or what?
> >
> > Are they worth to buy? That's basically what I want to know.
> >
>
>   The first Mind's Eye was very inspirational.  I have seen the second,
> and it didn't move me as much as the first one.  If there is a third, I
> hope it has the same vigor as the first.  I believe 'Beyond..' was the
> second.. the first is just called , the Mind's Eye if I recall correctly.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>

Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 12:15:32
Subject: Where on the net can we find rendered pix?
From:    James Cheseborough <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please let me know if you have any good sourcesfor rendered pix on the
net.
I have found lots of Web pages that really dissapoint! Please make sure
the ones you suggest actually *CONTAIN* *LOTS* of *HIGH* quality computer
generated (rendered) pix in JPEG format.

ie. Not just a Web page w/ a few pix and more links.....Thanks!

Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 12:44:53
Subject: Optimisation
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Received from GITD.PSG024  2164526              16SEP95  01.00
  -> IBMMAIL.INTERNET      IBMMAIL INTERNET               IBM
Hi all

Just wondering about the previous discussion of optimisation to
040 chip...no one ever mentioned if Imagine was ever optimised
for the PC.

The pentium have this 4 pipeline thingy that enable it to process
information much faster ... however a program must be written to
utilise this.  Such program include the game called Magic Carpet.

Anyway, my question is, is Imagine optimised to use this
processing?  If not then I guess there will be some improvement
to the rendering speed.

Please don't flame me for this ... it's just a questionbut
please correct me if I am wrong. :)

Oh yeah...the P6 is due to be released in the  near  future
and would be a beast for Imagine...wonder if Impulse is going
to optimise Imagine for windows, and put in a feature to render
on the fly ... ie anims doesn't have to be pre rendered but will
render and play instantaneously from the stage/project ed.

Just some thoughts.

Vic

Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 14:04:21
Subject: Huge iff-24 file - how to convert
From:    Bob Pleatman <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Being new to imagine, please forgive me if this is a stupid question.

I have created an image for a CD cover.  I was told by our Media
group that the final image should be at least 400dpi.  Seeing as the
cd is about 5 inches, I rendered the image at 2100x2220 in IFF-24.

I ended up with a 3.3 meg file.  Now I needed to convert it. Every program
I tried needed more menory to complete the task.  It would seem they all
read the entire picture before doing a conversion.  Is there another
program out there that will begin a  jpg conversion before reading the
whole file.  Do I need to get VMM, and go that route ?

On a side note, does 2100x2220 sound high enough for a slide?

And another question, if you got this far, I use the cybervision with
Imgaine 3.3, and noticed in the docs the parameter to set the screen to
800x600, but i use 776x600, is there a way tp specify exactly what I
want ?

Thanks alot

bob


Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 14:58:56
Subject: Re: The 3rd in the  Minds Eye video series (was RE: Mind Eye)
From:    Edward Chadez <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a previous letter, James Cheseborough wrote:
}
} The 1st video Minds Eye is better than EITHER the 2nd (Beyond...) or the
} 3rd (The Gate to The minds eye).
}

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.  :-)

} I'm really into music too. The music on the 1st is awesome, and went
} straight downhill after that! :-(
}

Perhaps if you were a Jan Hammer or Thomas Dolby fan you might think
otherwise.

} Now #3 *IS* better than the second, and has some state of the art
} animation that is totally awesome. They give you some 3" by 5" cards to
} order the COMPLETE video (all are just clips) from the creator. That's cool.

Hmm...I don't remember seeing 3x5 cards with the laser disc.  AFAIK "The
Gate" is a complete video which contains bits and pieces of hundreds of
computer animations from as many sources, so I don't know what "complete
video" or single "creator" you're referring to.  (Are we talking about the
same video?)

} But it just doesn't have the cohesiveness or flow that #1 did...
}

I suppose if someone wanted to own just one (either because of financial
reasons or because they're not really into CGI), then perhaps "The Mind's
Eye" might be the one to own.

      -Ed
--
Edward Chadez                                     http://galileo.carl.org/
Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst (Systems Integration Team)
CARL Corporation                                             [phone]

Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 15:14:31
Subject: Re: Huge iff-24 file - how to convert
From:    "Anime a day..." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Bob Pleatman wrote:

>
> Being new to imagine, please forgive me if this is a stupid question.

   hopefully I don'thave a stupid answer!
>
> I have created an image for a CD cover.  I was told by our Media
> group that the final image should be at least 400dpi.  Seeing as the
> cd is about 5 inches, I rendered the image at 2100x2220 in IFF-24.
>
   go to 2000x2000, it should be sharp enough that you won't need to reduce..



> I ended up with a 3.3 meg file.  Now I needed to convert it. Every program
> I tried needed more menory to complete the task.  It would seem they all
> read the entire picture before doing a conversion.  Is there another
> program out there that will begin a  jpg conversion before reading the
> whole file.  Do I need to get VMM, and go that route ?

   hmm, how much megs do you have.. I will try with my set-up (I am at
school right now) so with my 10 megs I think I can do it..


>
> On a side note, does 2100x2220 sound high enough for a slide?

  sure..  some who work with film say the 4000x4000 is what you need, but
I don't think so for 5".

>
> And another question, if you got this far, I use the cybervision with
> Imgaine 3.3, and noticed in the docs the parameter to set the screen to
> 800x600, but i use 776x600, is there a way tp specify exactly what I
> want ?


  ahh.. NewMode, that should help you defin any screen res you want.  You
might have to wrestle with it for a while, but I find it to be invaulable
for my 896x612 screen size..

  BTW, which 17" monitor is the user's choice?? One with the least amount
of black borders??  And which screen res & mode do most of you use??  I
use Super 72 at its highest mode..

 see ya

Bill



Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 15:56:24
Subject: Mirroring bones objects
From:    [e-mail] (Hendrik Kueck)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

what I am trying to do is to mirror a right arm bones object to
get the left arm. I use the transformation requester and scale
the group along the x-axis with -1. After that, the object itself
is mirrored, the bones axisses (or axes?)  are at the correct
positions but the alignment of the bones axises has not changed.
And it is not possible to mirror them with the transformation
requester afterwards. So is there any way to mirror the axises or
is there another way to mirror the arm so that the alignment of
the axises remains correct?

Bye,
  Hendrik



PS: Sorry for my bad english. (What the hell is the plural of
axis?)




Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 18:43:46
Subject: Re: Huge iff-24 file - how to convert
From:    Bob Arnold <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


You might also tweak around the aspect ratios to turn the 776x600 into
800x600 .. it will be a bit warped but less than 5%.  I have 12MB on my
machine (a PeeCee) and in Windows I use Paint Shop Pro to manipulate
sizes and resolutions and conversions.  Pretty good for shareware!
-Bob


On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Anime a day... wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Bob Pleatman wrote:
>
> >
> > Being new to imagine, please forgive me if this is a stupid question.
>
>    hopefully I don'thave a stupid answer!
> >
> > I have created an image for a CD cover.  I was told by our Media
> > group that the final image should be at least 400dpi.  Seeing as the
> > cd is about 5 inches, I rendered the image at 2100x2220 in IFF-24.
> >
>    go to 2000x2000, it should be sharp enough that you won't need to reduce..
>
>
>
> > I ended up with a 3.3 meg file.  Now I needed to convert it. Every program
> > I tried needed more menory to complete the task.  It would seem they all
> > read the entire picture before doing a conversion.  Is there another
> > program out there that will begin a  jpg conversion before reading the
> > whole file.  Do I need to get VMM, and go that route ?
>
>    hmm, how much megs do you have.. I will try with my set-up (I am at
> school right now) so with my 10 megs I think I can do it..
>
>
> >
> > On a side note, does 2100x2220 sound high enough for a slide?
>
>   sure..  some who work with film say the 4000x4000 is what you need, but
> I don't think so for 5".
>
> >
> > And another question, if you got this far, I use the cybervision with
> > Imgaine 3.3, and noticed in the docs the parameter to set the screen to
> > 800x600, but i use 776x600, is there a way tp specify exactly what I
> > want ?
>
>
>   ahh.. NewMode, that should help you defin any screen res you want.  You
> might have to wrestle with it for a while, but I find it to be invaulable
> for my 896x612 screen size..
>
>   BTW, which 17" monitor is the user's choice?? One with the least amount
> of black borders??  And which screen res & mode do most of you use??  I
> use Super 72 at its highest mode..
>
>  see ya
>
> Bill
>
>
>

Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 20:24:32
Subject: Re: Huge iff-24 file - how to convert
From:    [e-mail] (Glenn Nielsen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In <[e-mail]>, Bob Pleatman
<[e-mail]> writes:
>
> Being new to imagine, please forgive me if this is a stupid question.
>
> I have created an image for a CD cover.  I was told by our Media
> group that the final image should be at least 400dpi.  Seeing as the
> cd is about 5 inches, I rendered the image at 2100x2220 in IFF-24.
>
> I ended up with a 3.3 meg file.  Now I needed to convert it. Every program
> I tried needed more menory to complete the task.  It would seem they all
> read the entire picture before doing a conversion.  Is there another
> program out there that will begin a  jpg conversion before reading the
> whole file.  Do I need to get VMM, and go that route ?
>
> On a side note, does 2100x2220 sound high enough for a slide?
>
> And another question, if you got this far, I use the cybervision with
> Imgaine 3.3, and noticed in the docs the parameter to set the screen to
> 800x600, but i use 776x600, is there a way tp specify exactly what I
> want ?
>

The commercial automatic JPEG program PEGGER doesn't need to read in the
entire picture in order to JPEG it.  For something going to a printer you
would want to set the quality up at 100% so there is minimal loss of quality
for the image the printer uses.


----------------   Glenn Nielsen   ------------------
 -<  Life is too short for a dull computer, Amiga >-
[e-mail]
CIS: 75115,444  BIX: expressway  PORTAL: Glenn-EWS


Date:    Friday, 15 September 1995 21:55:20
Subject: Re: Impulse's metaball pic
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, gregory denby wrote:

>
> The rest of the pic is just a platform in a nice space backdrop, good
> nebula, etc.
>

I kinda wondered about the backdrop; The platform and the sculpture are
fairly well-known, but take a look at the background. It's obviously a
background image, but the light seems to be coming from one or two of the
really bright stars. Do you think that those lens flares are
Imagine-generated?

> Well, got to get back to watching my drive light flicker
> Greg Denby
>


Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 02:22:38
Subject: Re: Locking brush to state
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it possible to lock a BRUSH to a state?  I can't seem to get it to work,
although I can lock a texture no problem.  Using 3.3 PC.

Thanks.

Alan.

Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 03:27:59
Subject: Re: Everything is white exept the background !
From:    Duncan <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jacques,

> Hi all, I've got a strange problem here with Imagine 3.0.
>
> I've made a logo, first with no particular attribute, just a color,
> and tried to render it => the background has the right color, but
> the logo renders in gray shades no matter if I render in scanline
> or trace mode !!!
>
 i think that you might be applying the attributes to the parent axis instead
of the actual 'logo' what i do is create the 'spline object' save it and load
it into the detail editor hit F1 then RA-2 (right amiga or alt if you like ;)
then delete the parent axis RA-1 RA-A and RA-J then move the axis to x=0.0
then into the attributes editor ( providing you want all the logo with the
colour etc this should work ok) and add colour and textures maps and anyone
else i know

 is this gonna bounce from compuserve ???

  Duncan

 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 \\                           [e-mail]                      \\
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 03:39:08
Subject: Re: Locking brush to state
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Is it possible to lock a BRUSH to a state?  I can't seem to get it to work,
>although I can lock a texture no problem.  Using 3.3 PC.

Ooops.  I wasn't hitting ENTER after browsing for state to lock to.  Sorry.

Alan.



Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 04:39:15
Subject: Re: Everything is white exept the background !
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-15 05:05:01 EDT, you write:

>I've made a logo, first with no particular attribute, just a color,
>and tried to render it => the background has the right color, but
>the logo renders in gray shades no matter if I render in scanline
>or trace mode !!!

Here's a possible solution . . . did you select the word as a group or did
you give attributes to each letter individually?  If you did the former, then
the attributes aren't adopted by each individual member of the group.  Select
one of the letters, give it the attributes you want, then select the rest of
the objects (with the attribute-assigned letter picked first) and use the
"Apply" command to give all of the letters the same attributes.  That should
fix it.

                                   Cory

Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 07:53:17
Subject: Re: Huge iff-24 file - how to convert
From:    Jim Rix <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Bob Pleatman wrote:

>
> Being new to imagine, please forgive me if this is a stupid question.
>
> I have created an image for a CD cover.  I was told by our Media
> group that the final image should be at least 400dpi.  Seeing as the
> cd is about 5 inches, I rendered the image at 2100x2220 in IFF-24.
>
> I ended up with a 3.3 meg file.  Now I needed to convert it. Every program
> I tried needed more menory to complete the task.  It would seem they all
> read the entire picture before doing a conversion.  Is there another
> program out there that will begin a  jpg conversion before reading the
> whole file.  Do I need to get VMM, and go that route ?
>
> On a side note, does 2100x2220 sound high enough for a slide?
>
> And another question, if you got this far, I use the cybervision with
> Imgaine 3.3, and noticed in the docs the parameter to set the screen to
> 800x600, but i use 776x600, is there a way tp specify exactly what I
> want ?
>
> Thanks alot
>
> bob
>
The Amiga program ImageFX has the ability to use virtual memory.  It will
have no problem converting you image to the format you desire.

As to the slide I would suggest a resolution of 6000x4000.

Jim Rix

Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 08:34:17
Subject: Re: Impulse's metaball pic
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
>On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, gregory denby wrote:
>
>>
>> The rest of the pic is just a platform in a nice space backdrop, good
>> nebula, etc.
>>
>
>I kinda wondered about the backdrop; The platform and the sculpture are
>fairly well-known, but take a look at the background. It's obviously a
>background image, but the light seems to be coming from one or two of the
>really bright stars. Do you think that those lens flares are
>Imagine-generated?


                Not a chance.  He didn't put a whole lot of work into this
which
just stands to reason.  It's just to show off neww functions.  The reason why
the flares would not be Imagine generated is because if you look at the
backdrop and at the objects as seperate items you can see that the backdrop
has a degree of  bluriness (word?) that the objects don't have.  The way the
bluriness
is it doesn't look like a DOF thing at all but just a low quality scanned
image (or maybe the original photo just wasn't too hot).  At any rate the
flares are part of the
back drop because if they were from Imagine they would be sharper.  I don't
think
that for this type of picture Mike would have put in a bunch of extra work
just to
fuzzy his flares.


                Mike H. if your watching.  If I'm wrong please post the
correction to
the list for all to make note of.  Thanks.


                TTYL.




>
>> Well, got to get back to watching my drive light flicker
>> Greg Denby
>>
>
>


Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 08:36:28
Subject: Re: Everything is white exept the background !
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Hi Jacques,
>
>> Hi all, I've got a strange problem here with Imagine 3.0.
>>
>> I've made a logo, first with no particular attribute, just a color,
>> and tried to render it => the background has the right color, but
>> the logo renders in gray shades no matter if I render in scanline
>> or trace mode !!!
>>
> i think that you might be applying the attributes to the parent axis instead
>of the actual 'logo' what i do is create the 'spline object' save it and load
>it into the detail editor hit F1 then RA-2 (right amiga or alt if you like ;)
>then delete the parent axis RA-1 RA-A and RA-J then move the axis to x=0.0
>then into the attributes editor ( providing you want all the logo with the
>colour etc this should work ok) and add colour and textures maps and anyone
>else i know
>
> is this gonna bounce from compuserve ???



                You know it will.  Why waste the energy asking?

                Is somebody looking into this?  (I.E. - CS users).


>
>  Duncan
>
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> \\                           [e-mail]                      \\
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>


Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 10:47:03
Subject: Re: mirroring bones objects
From:    Bob Arnold <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


The plural of axis is -er- "chainsaw"?   hahahahaha  No, try "axes"
with a long "e" sound.  Gee, 6 years of physics really hasn't failed me
after all......Bob


On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Hendrik Kueck wrote:

> Hello,
>
> what I am trying to do is to mirror a right arm bones object to
> get the left arm. I use the transformation requester and scale
> the group along the x-axis with -1. After that, the object itself
> is mirrored, the bones axisses (or axes?)  are at the correct
> positions but the alignment of the bones axises has not changed.
> And it is not possible to mirror them with the transformation
> requester afterwards. So is there any way to mirror the axises or
> is there another way to mirror the arm so that the alignment of
> the axises remains correct?
>
> Bye,
>   Hendrik
>
>
>
> PS: Sorry for my bad english. (What the hell is the plural of
> axis?)
>
>
>
>

Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 11:58:23
Subject: Re: Minds Eye
From:    Dylan Neill <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> A few months ago somebody wrote something about two or three movies with
> "Minds Eye" in the title. Now I have got a chance to buy two movies called
> "Gate to the Minds Eye" and "Beyond the Minds Eye".
>
> What are they? Stories? Conceptual movies? Raytracing from beginning to
> end? Or what?
>

They're a show of rendering clips taken from people around the world set
to music.

---
                               |\ /|
                                o O
  ________________________oOO_=( ^ )=_OOo___________________________
 |                        '''     U   '''                           |
 | Gumby Death Man (Dylan Neill) Amiga 1200/6/120  486DX2-66/24/500 |
 | Email: [e-mail]   WWW: http://www.pcug.org.au/~dylann/ |
 |__________________________________________________________________|


Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 13:27:20
Subject: Re: Huge iff-24 file - how to convert
From:    [e-mail] (joop van de wege)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>  BTW, which 17" monitor is the user's choice?? One with the least amount
>of black borders??  And which screen res & mode do most of you use??  I
>use Super 72 at its highest mode..
Thats highly dependant on the gfx system. I have a Merlin and it comes with a
very nice program which lets you play around with the Hz/Khz settings and I
don't have black borders if I don't want them.

A couple of weeks ago I posted a response to questions about 040
optimalisation of Imagine and mentioned a way to get rid of the jumpy cursor.

I use a program called 'CPU-control' version 1.8 which lets move the
supervisor stackpointer into FAST and move the VBR into FAST too.
Probably only needed for 040 owners because an 040 and CHIP is a big nono.

It should be on Aminet or a Fish CDROM. I lost a great deal of my utility
archive a while back and I have only the program left and no documentation
but it has a GUI so its rather straightforward anyway.

For those that are unable to find, its available on request.

Joop

Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 20:20:28
Subject: RE: Shading bands
From:    Jeff Hanna <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>-> My question is, I have an object that is pretty much a solid grey =
col
>-> has specular set and hardness (255), with no texture.  When I render
>-> image, I get very noticable areas where the shading changes. I this
>-> caused by me having a setting wrong ?  How do I get rid of it.
>-> I am rendering the imagine in iff-24, and looking at the image with
>-> 64k colors.
>
>Simple. View the image in 16million (24 bit) color mode. As good as
>16-bit color is, you won't get rid of the dithering bands unless you
>have a true 24-bit display.


Yes and no. On solid color objects (like what is mentioned) even 24bit =
color will not entirely remove the banding. a 24bit display has 256 =
available levels for each of the Red, Green, and Blue color channels. =
This means that any object that is a fully saturated, solid color will =
only get rendered with a maximum of 256 (out of a possilbe 16.7M) =
colors. This will produce, albeit very very faint, banding.

Good dithering techniques (ala ADPro2.5) can help in clean up of a =
render such as this. Load the finished 24 bit rendering into ADPro and =
have ADPro render it to a 24bit screen with Floyd-Steinberg dithering =
on. This should erradicate the banding inherent in the picture.


Date:    Saturday, 16 September 1995 22:36:53
Subject: Re: A shadowless object
From:    Kent Marshall Worley <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> If you have to compositing in an animation, you can save yourself a lot of
> work by using previously rendered frame as backdrop.
>
> example: you make a 30 frame anim of a bee flying in a room.
>
> 1- make the staging as usual.
>
> 2- when ready for the final render, change the number of frames to 60, and
> change all "BAR" for the bee from 1-30 to 31-60 and add a "global" actor in
> the range 31-60, specifing as backdrop image
> ".../BeeProject.imp/final.pix/pic" and 30 as "max frame count (or some thing
> like that"
>
> Do not forget to make a copy all your light setting from 1-30 to 31-60. copy
> also the ambient lighting and the global fog.
>
> now, you just have to render, the machine will do all the work for you (ie:
> compositing the frame 1 with th frame 31, 2 with 32 etc.
>
> This also have the advantage of using a lot less memory and not much more
> rendering time. (but it take a LOT of HD space)
>
>
>
> -----
> Patrick Sauvageau
> ([e-mail])
>
>
oh yeah cool I forgot about that feature. HD space is a problem but
HDrives are not very expensive these days if you have a box you can put
them in.
 Kent Worley

Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 00:41:51
Subject: Re: optimisation
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Vic, on Sep 15 you wrote:

> Oh yeah...the P6 is due to be released in the  near  future
> and would be a beast for Imagine...wonder if Impulse is going
> to optimise Imagine for windows, and put in a feature to render
> on the fly ... ie anims doesn't have to be pre rendered but will
> render and play instantaneously from the stage/project ed.
>
> Just some thoughts.

Real time rendering?  I know Pentiums are fast, I'm going to order a P5-90,
but not that fast. Tell me about the P6, I might hold off for its release.

-- Bob

  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :


Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 10:40:54
Subject: Shading bands - How do i get rid of them ?
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------




Hi,

A while back when I was reading this group, before I actually bought
imagine, I remember seeing things about banding, but I don't remember.

My question is, I have an object that is pretty much a solid grey color,
has specular set and hardness (255), with no texture.  When I render the
image, I get very noticable areas where the shading changes. I this
caused by me having a setting wrong ?  How do I get rid of it.

I am rendering the imagine in iff-24, and looking at the image with 64K
colors.

By the way, thanks for the help with the huge iff file I had.  Someoen
suggested using hamlab, and it worked great.  It practically used 0
memory while doing the conversion.

Thanks alot

bob



Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 11:11:49
Subject: Why is HAM so ugly?
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Maybe this is a simple and stupid question, but why are renderings in HAM so
damn ugly?  I've seen pictures on the Amiga (standard ECS machines, not
AGA) that are very good drawings!  Now why, if the standard Amiga can
have 4096 colors at 600x400 resolution (and higher depending on user
preference) are they not even half as good or as detailed as JPG images?

For instance, I made a gas giant planet, with a nebula (or what was at
first SUPPOSED to be a nebula, heh) and rendered it in several
resolutions.  The best one was the JPG (viewed on an IBM).

I suppose that is it.  I either need to buy an IBM or get a 24-bit
display board, huh?

Can someone give me the best resolution/image method to render/view on an
Amiga?  I've only gotten a few decent ones and can't really remember how
I lucked out and got them.  Any help is appreciated, thanks.

I also have one other question, I bought Imagine 3.0 (for Amiga) used
awhile back and was wondering if there is any way to transfer the license
over to my name?  It was bought originally buy some guy who sold it to
someone else, who sold it to the guy I bought it from.  It's probably
impossible to track the original guy down, but I'd like to get the
benefits of being a "registered" owner, especially for the price I paid
for it, but am afraid I'm stuck.  Any help on this?

Thanks!

Damon



Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 11:56:45
Subject: Re: Shading bands - How do i get rid of them ?
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



If you looked at the image in 24 bit color, rather than 64k, you wouldn't
be seeing any bands. 64k is good, but it doesn't provide smooth gradations
of a single color.

On Sun, 17 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> A while back when I was reading this group, before I actually bought
> imagine, I remember seeing things about banding, but I don't remember.
>
> My question is, I have an object that is pretty much a solid grey color,
> has specular set and hardness (255), with no texture.  When I render the
> image, I get very noticable areas where the shading changes. I this
> caused by me having a setting wrong ?  How do I get rid of it.
>
> I am rendering the imagine in iff-24, and looking at the image with 64K
> colors.
>
> By the way, thanks for the help with the huge iff file I had.  Someoen
> suggested using hamlab, and it worked great.  It practically used 0
> memory while doing the conversion.
>
> Thanks alot
>
> bob
>
>
>

Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 13:34:50
Subject: Re: Shading bands - How do i get rid of them ?
From:    Catherine A Tromanhauser <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Sun, 17 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> My question is, I have an object that is pretty much a solid grey color,
> has specular set and hardness (255), with no texture.  When I render the
> image, I get very noticable areas where the shading changes. I this
> caused by me having a setting wrong ?  How do I get rid of it.
>
> I am rendering the imagine in iff-24, and looking at the image with 64K
> colors.

Make sure than when you first render you are in either scanline or trace
mode.  If this is already the case then the 64K colours are probably not
enough to give smooth colour transitions so try applying some dithering
technique whilst you view it.  Hope this helps.

Sully


Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 14:44:02
Subject: Single frame recording VCR
From:    Imagine Mailing List <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


   I remember a year back someone mentioned a cheap(er) VCR that could
be used to dump your animations out a frame at a time. A friend
has asked me about it and I can't remember any details about it.

   Could someone please email the brand, model and price
  to [e-mail]??


  Greg



Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 15:17:36
Subject: Re: Shading bands - How do i get rid of them ?
From:    Richard Heidebrecht <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 17 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> A while back when I was reading this group, before I actually bought
> imagine, I remember seeing things about banding, but I don't remember.
>
> My question is, I have an object that is pretty much a solid grey color,
> has specular set and hardness (255), with no texture.  When I render the
> image, I get very noticable areas where the shading changes. I this
> caused by me having a setting wrong ?  How do I get rid of it.
>
> I am rendering the imagine in iff-24, and looking at the image with 64K
> colors.
>

Try looking at your image in 24-bit (16.8 million) colour.  Trust me, it
makes a huge difference over 16-bit (64K) colour.


   ~Rick Heidebrecht~



Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 17:35:50
Subject: Re: Why is HAM so ugly?
From:    Mike McCool <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Damon,

      I'm with you:  Ham is really suckie.  But, considering it's only
6-bit and kind of a trick on the interleaved bitmap structure, I think it
looks OK.  It's the damn fringing I'm fed up with.

      You'll get floods of 24bit advice no doubt, but just a word to
the wise:  till you can afford to go the whole hog, try DCTV.  Find a
friend who has one (like I did), and get a look at what 24bit really
looks like on an Amiga.  It's hard to go back.  And DCTV has video out,
which costs extra on many video board setups.  For the buck, it's a lot
of bang.

      It's even got a built-in anti-aliasing effect that will conquer
the jaggies.  (It's a sort of soft-focus sacrifice you make for true
color brilliance.  Most people think it's DCTV's liability, but I call it
built-in AA).

      Keep tweaking your renders, you might find ham's better than you
think.  At least till you find some route to 24bit.  Remember: ten years
ago, when Mac's were still B & W only, amiga's had 4096 colors.

Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 18:36:00
Subject: Re: constant upgrade Amiga to PC
From:    [e-mail] (Drift Dennis)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>hi,
>I wanted to know if it was possible to upgrade from Amiga Imagine 3.0 to the
>current version in the PC platform and the cost involved? And I also wanted
>to know if the action
>editor was placed in the stage editor module or are they still two different
>editors in the current version.I was greatly dissappointed when I went to 3.0
>from 2.0 and it was still
>the same in spite of what Impulse had promised.It always gets a little
>fustrated switching back and forth  when working on a large project.
>  Also can someone give me a brief list of other features in current version.
> Thanks.
>
I know that for awhile there they were offering a discount to registered
AMIGA owners that wanted the PC version, but that was some time ago. They
may not be offering that anymore..  >8{)







 Drift Dennis
   {kc7ot}
 [e-mail]                     May The Force Be With You

 NightHawk Production
 3D graphics and animation
 9403 Marilla Dr
 Lakeside, California               The true miracle is that we exist at all,
 92040-2801                             let alone the we are here and now.
 PHONE [phone]
 FAX   [phone]       PLEASE STOP BY OUR WEB SITE, we would appreciate
                           hearing from you at http://www.nighthawk.com
   Using Amiga and PC technologies in symbotic harmony
****************************************************************************
******
A2k-030@50mhz+20Meg/A4k-040@40Mhz+50Meg/PAR/1stopMusicShop/+6gigHDspace&PC+20Meg

****^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^


Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 20:47:39
Subject: Re:Why is HAM so ugly?
From:    Mike McCool <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> PCHG chunks in IFF images.

That format is gorgeous,--but can you animate it?  I got all excited
about PCHG last year, then kind of ran into a dead end.  Then I got my DCTV
.. . .  the rest is histrionics.


Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 21:08:32
Subject: Re:Why is HAM so ugly?
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damon Lacaille writes, in part:
>Can someone give me the best resolution/image method to render/view on an
>Amiga?  I've only gotten a few decent ones and can't really remember how
>I lucked out and got them.  Any help is appreciated, thanks.

first of all, JPEG is simply a storage format, 24 bit, so the quality of
a JPEG image, when viewed, is primarily dependant on the capability of
the viewing software and hardware, and on the compression % (100% means
no loss of data, but larger files, lower percents smaller with image
detail lost).
Now, as to Amiga OCS displays, like HAM, I have found that the best rendering
if a stored image, any format, is provided by a virtually unused mode,
sliced half-brite, supported by HAMLab.  Each scanline is a halfbrite
(32 color + 32 half intensity) palette.  Being limited to OldChipSet display
modes on my native system (Amiga 2000, no ECS, no AGA, no 24bit *^( )
I have experimented extensively and found this to be the most pleasing
output, unless very limited colors are used, when I used Slice/Dynamic
Hi-Res (640*400)
My best recommendation is HAMLab, set to HalfBrite, Interlaced, sliced
(as many palette registers as you can, up to 15, without losing part of
the image).  My favorite ditherings are Ordered (24->12) Jarvis(12->display)
If none of this makes sense, get HAMLab, load it up, select "Change Output
Mode" and it'll all make sense.
BTW, check my file on Aminet:pix/imagi/gallery.lha, it has two copies
of the same inage, one 800x600 JPG, the other Sliced Halfbrite 320x400,
viewable with Mostra, or other viewers that fully support Palette Change
PCHG chunks in IFF images.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled IML.
JN

Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 21:51:58
Subject: Re: quickrender rendering method selector
From:    Bob Arnold <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


How about instead you pop into the Preferences and tell it to do a Trace
and specify a resolution instead?  I'll do a gnarly ugly object with
super lo-res and scanline until it looks "okay" then in prefs I'll tell
it Trace mode to see what the refractions will look like, then when I'm
really feeling pleased I'll pop out to the Project ed. and do a full render.

Best Fishes,   -Bob



On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Scott Krehbiel wrote:

>
>
> I've been thinking that one feature that I'd REALLY love
> to see in imagine is an option to select the rendering method
> from the quickrender requestor.
>
> I often create a scene that I'd like to see in trace mode,
> though I usually use scanline rendering for quickrenders.
>
> It'd be a lot easier if there were a toggle switch with rendering
> methods there along with light angle, etc.
>
> Is there an EMail address to send this to Impulse, or do I have
> to snail-mail this to them??  Anyone know of an easy way to get
> a message to them??
>
> Scott Krehbiel
> [e-mail]
>
>
>

Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 21:54:11
Subject: Re: optimisation
From:    Bob Arnold <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Naaaah, save the $$$ and buy a DEC Alpha.  For around $5000 (go ahead,
flame me, someone told me that price) you can buy horsepower to shame a P6.

-Bob



On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Robert Byrne wrote:

> Hello Vic, on Sep 15 you wrote:
>
> > Oh yeah...the P6 is due to be released in the  near  future
> > and would be a beast for Imagine...wonder if Impulse is going
> > to optimise Imagine for windows, and put in a feature to render
> > on the fly ... ie anims doesn't have to be pre rendered but will
> > render and play instantaneously from the stage/project ed.
> >
> > Just some thoughts.
>
> Real time rendering?  I know Pentiums are fast, I'm going to order a P5-90,
> but not that fast. Tell me about the P6, I might hold off for its release.
>
> -- Bob
>
>   :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
>   : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :
>
>

Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 21:57:01
Subject: Ugly pork
From:    Mike McCool <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just read a GREAT post from Jason, on the subject of using outside image
processors to convert from 24-bit.  Imagine does its thing best in 24bit,
but from there it's best to let someone else work with the raw material.

I found its DCTV support to be bogus.  It didn't even work in 2.9.
Jason's probably right, as to why its DCTV images look so rotten:  lack of
RGB filter.

One image processor he left out is REND24.  Though I have AdPro and
ImageFX, I actually use R24 more often, cause it's so easy to configure.
And though it lacks that delicious RGB filter, it does have NTSC
limiting, which is almost as good.  It even has a couple of dither
options,--but best of all, it's PD.

If you (the original poster) do decide to work with DCTV, the native
program, IFFtoDCTV is a beaut, with the RGB filter built in as an option.
And you can even use AmigaDos's "dpat" command in conjunction with
IFFtoDCTV to batch process your Imagn iff24's.


Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 21:58:01
Subject: RE:Why is HAM so ugly?
From:    [e-mail] (The Prophet)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>Maybe this is a simple and stupid question, but why are renderings in HAM so
>damn ugly?  I've seen pictures on the Amiga (standard ECS machines, not
>AGA) that are very good drawings!  Now why, if the standard Amiga can
>have 4096 colors at 600x400 resolution (and higher depending on user
>preference) are they not even half as good or as detailed as JPG images?

First, I'm not sure what you mean by standard Amiga.  The standard Amiga
is one with an AGA chipset.

If you are using AGA then you can do 640x400 in HAM8.  HAM8 will give
you 256,000 colours from a palette of 16million.  Not distinguishable
from a 24bit display.

If you are stuck with ECS or OCS, then the best you can hope for is
320x400 in HAM6.  You get 4096 colours from a palette of 4096.  Because
of your complaints, I guess you have HAM6 but not in 640x400.

To get the best out of your HAM images, DON'T ALLOW IMAGINE TO DO THE
CONVERSION FROM 24BIT TO HAM6 or HAM8.  Imagine's dithering is
terrible.  Your image will look rather grainy.

Render AND SAVE all your images in 24bit format, IFF24 or IMP24.  Then
run the images thru a professional image processor package like
ADPro, ImageMaster, or ImageFX.(I like ImageMaster).  The image
processor will provide you will a variety of dithering schemes, all of
which usually look better than Imagine's method.

Also make sure that you tell the image processor to use a new palette
for EACH frame converted.  This will give you the best colour palette
possible for each image.  All HAM images have a base palette that
all the colours in your image are derived from.  HAM6 works with a
base of 16 colours.  If you have a bad base, this can result in HAM
fringing.  Fringing is less noticable in higher resolutions(AGA) but
ECS/OCS are stuck with LoRes(320) horizontal pixels.

The image processor should also be able to assemble your animation in
ANIM7 or ANIM8 formats.  Imagine currently can only do ANIM5.  What's
the difference?  I've done speed tests and ANIM7 will consistantly
give me double the playback rate of anim5.  That means 30FPS instead
of 15FPS or 20FPS instead of 10FPS.

One benefit of letting imagine do the conversion is that you'll get
a smaller animation file size in the end.  Look very closely at the
dithered patterns that Imagine makes.  They don't change as objects
move on the screen unless they absolutely have to change.  This results
in lower deltas between frames and smaller file sizes.  A smaller
delta also means faster decompression and playback but it is not
worth the ugly image.  Dither it with an image processor and build
ANIM7 for speed.

----

That's assuming you are restricted to your existing hardware.  You
could get a 24bit card for an ECS/OCS machine.  It will make nice
displays but 24bit anim is BIG and the card must be fast to play it
back.  Look for a board that offers AGA emulation.  At least you
could use HAM8 modes then.

You could go for a single frame recorder, which is expensive, but
you won't be concerned about playback rates, just storage of the
24bit images.(JPG?)

DCTV is another option for ECS/OCS owners and is still less expensive
than a 24bit card.  You'll render in HiRes(640) laced or non-laced
modes using 3 or 4 bitplanes(8 or 16 colours).  The DCTV image will
look like hell on your normal display but the black box will work
its magic to convert the image to 2 or 3 million colours.  It works
best on colourful images but you lose sharpness.

Again, DON'T LET IMAGINE CONVERT THE 24BIT RENDERS TO DCTV FORMAT.
Imagine can do it for you but Imagine doesn't use the DCTV RGB filter.
The RGB filter will really clean up a DCTV image.  So, use your fav
image processor for this work.

Enjoy,

Jaeson K.
 ____            ____            _           _
( |  \          ( /  \          ( )       _ / )
 )|   )_   __    /   /_   _  __  /   __  ( X_)
( |  /~ \ /\_)  /---~/ ) / )/  )/~\ /\_)  / _
 )ll/  l/ \__ (/   (/   (_//__//  / \__  (___)
(____________)        (___/        (___)

Jaeson Koszarsky                  Amiga 3000+
----------------                  -----------
[e-mail]              68040/30Mhz
[e-mail]                24Megs-1GIG
[e-mail]            OS3.1

Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 22:16:12
Subject: Quickrender rendering method selector
From:    Scott Krehbiel <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



I've been thinking that one feature that I'd REALLY love
to see in imagine is an option to select the rendering method
from the quickrender requestor.

I often create a scene that I'd like to see in trace mode,
though I usually use scanline rendering for quickrenders.

It'd be a lot easier if there were a toggle switch with rendering
methods there along with light angle, etc.

Is there an EMail address to send this to Impulse, or do I have
to snail-mail this to them??  Anyone know of an easy way to get
a message to them??

Scott Krehbiel
[e-mail]



Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 22:19:11
Subject: Constant upgrade Amiga to PC
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi,
I wanted to know if it was possible to upgrade from Amiga Imagine 3.0 to the
current version in the PC platform and the cost involved? And I also wanted
to know if the action
editor was placed in the stage editor module or are they still two different
editors in the current version.I was greatly dissappointed when I went to 3.0
from 2.0 and it was still
the same in spite of what Impulse had promised.It always gets a little
fustrated switching back and forth  when working on a large project.
  Also can someone give me a brief list of other features in current version.
 Thanks.

Date:    Sunday, 17 September 1995 23:15:41
Subject: Re: Standard Amiga?
From:    Mike McCool <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Jaeson "The Prophet" Koszarsky-
> What do you mean a standard Amiga is AGA?  How do you figure?  As I see it
> a "standard Amiga" is essentially display independant, but if you want to
> classify it by chipsets, which chipsets are most numerous in the installed
> base of Amiga computers in the world?
> JN

Right on.  My hackles went up a bit there, too.  But perhaps what he
meant was that AGA is the CURRENT standard.  That is, the only thing
currently in production.

(Speak of which,--and please excuse this leaving of Imagine's orbit--but
has anyone heard rumor of the first 1,400 new amiga's rolling off the
assembly line?).

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 00:31:46
Subject: Standard Amiga?
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jaeson "The Prophet" Koszarsky-
What do you mean a standard Amiga is AGA?  How do you figure?  As I see it
a "standard Amiga" is essentially display independant, but if you want to
classify it by chipsets, which chipsets are most numerous in the installed
base of Amiga computers in the world?
JN

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 02:34:07
Subject: Re: quickrender rendering method selector
From:    Scott Krehbiel <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Bob Arnold wrote:

>
> How about instead you pop into the Preferences and tell it to do a Trace
> and specify a resolution instead?  I'll do a gnarly ugly object with
> super lo-res and scanline until it looks "okay" then in prefs I'll tell
> it Trace mode to see what the refractions will look like, then when I'm
> really feeling pleased I'll pop out to the Project ed. and do a full render.
>
> Best Fishes,   -Bob
>
>

My point is that I find hopping back and forth from the preferences
editor to be a pain in the rear.  I know it's not that big a deal,
but it seems to me that it'd eliminate some extra hassle if there
were a gadget there in the quickrender requestor where you could
specify the rendering method.

Scott Krehbiel
[e-mail]



Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 06:47:18
Subject: Re: optimisation
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 08:54 PM 17/9/95 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Naaaah, save the $$$ and buy a DEC Alpha.  For around $5000 (go ahead,
>flame me, someone told me that price) you can buy horsepower to shame a P6.
>
>-Bob
>
And even then you won't get real-time rendering. Previews are probably close
to real time though. I think it's a bit hopeful to expect real time from a P6.
It's only(!) about 1.5 times the speed of a Pentium at the same clock speed. ie
a 100MHz P6 is as fast as a 150MHz Pentium. Go ahead and get that P90, Robert.

>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Robert Byrne wrote:
>
>> Hello Vic, on Sep 15 you wrote:
>>
>> > Oh yeah...the P6 is due to be released in the  near  future
>> > and would be a beast for Imagine...wonder if Impulse is going
>> > to optimise Imagine for windows, and put in a feature to render
>> > on the fly ... ie anims doesn't have to be pre rendered but will
>> > render and play instantaneously from the stage/project ed.
>> >
>> > Just some thoughts.
>>
>> Real time rendering?  I know Pentiums are fast, I'm going to order a P5-90,
>> but not that fast. Tell me about the P6, I might hold off for its release.
>>
>> -- Bob
>>
>>   :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
>>   : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :
>>
>>
>
>


Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 06:52:15
Subject: Re: quickrender rendering method selector
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 09:16 PM 17/9/95 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>I've been thinking that one feature that I'd REALLY love
>to see in imagine is an option to select the rendering method
>from the quickrender requestor.
>
>I often create a scene that I'd like to see in trace mode,
>though I usually use scanline rendering for quickrenders.
>
>It'd be a lot easier if there were a toggle switch with rendering
>methods there along with light angle, etc.
>
>Is there an EMail address to send this to Impulse, or do I have
>to snail-mail this to them??  Anyone know of an easy way to get
>a message to them??
>
>Scott Krehbiel
>[e-mail]

Good idea! Send it to [e-mail]
Mark it for Mike H's attention. They reckon snail or Fax are more likely
to be paid attention to, but I always get a reply.


Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 09:24:55
Subject: Minds Eye (again)
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, ok, ok, I got the point, allright?

Jeez, all I did was ask a simple question. You didn't have to BOMB with=20
with answers!

;-)

Seriously, a great many thanks to all who answered. I appreciate it.
And yes, I will buy them.

*---------------------------------------------------------------*
|   Conny Joensson   |   Swedish Space Corp. Esrange            |
|   Kiruna           |   Satellite operations - Telecom Div.    |
|   Sweden           |   [e-mail]              |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 11:08:51
Subject: Football (soccer) model
From:    [e-mail] (Rob Caunt)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone requested a model of a football (soccer) a while ago (sorry, I
don't remember who).

I mentioned this to my 15 year old brother, who then produced one in a couple
of hours... (using another rendering package WITH AN AREXX PORT).

Attached is a small jpeg of the object converted to Imagine format. If anyone
wants the model (it's 59K), mail me direct [e-mail] and
I'll send it to you. It's freeware. Thanks Alistair.

L8R

Rob Caunt

section 1 of uuencode 4.21 of file FOOTBALL.JPG    by R.E.M.


--> ATTACHEMENT: FOOTBALL.JPG <--

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 11:17:15
Subject: Re: optimisation
From:    [e-mail] (Kaspar Stromme)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings, All.

>
> Naaaah, save the $$$ and buy a DEC Alpha.  For around $5000 (go ahead,
> flame me, someone told me that price) you can buy horsepower to shame a P6.
>
> -Bob
>

Teraclipse Workstation (as advertised in VTU):
166Mhz Apha
17' monitor
4x scsi cd-rom
64 bit, 2MB graphics card
16 MB RAM
540 MB removable SCSI-3 HD
Windows NT 3.51

PRICED AT $3995


Amiga still rules though...even though the new units are incredibly
overpriced :(

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Kaspar Stromme                             40mhz68030/'882;9MB;340MB
  [e-mail]                          DCTV true-color system

  PC-MAC =3D PoliticalCorrect-MindAbsentComputing             IRC:KilZ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 11:25:00
Subject: Re: optimisation
From:    [e-mail] (Imagine Users Mailing List)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> And even then you won't get real-time rendering. Previews are probably close
> to real time though. I think it's a bit hopeful to expect real time from a P6.

> It's only(!) about 1.5 times the speed of a Pentium at the same clock speed. i
e
> a 100MHz P6 is as fast as a 150MHz Pentium. Go ahead and get that P90, Robert.

>

Actually, that's only partly true.  If you're running regular day to day apps
(Word, Lotus, whatever) then this is the case = the P6 is only 1.5 times faster
than the P5.  However, if you're doing a lot of floating point operations (like,

for instance, raytracing) then the P6 screams....

It remains to be seen how well Imagine runs on a P6 however... I would hope
that the Windows version of Imagine would support OpenGL or Intel's 3DR, so
that we can get real-time solid previews as requested by other members on
this mailing list.  And also be able to take advantage of hardware assisted
rendering displays - such as Matrox' card or maybe Creative Labs new 3DBlaster.

Given that 3DS Max and Lightwave will have solid previews under Win95+OpenGL
or 3DR, I would think that Imagine would as well.  And right now, you can get
solid previews with Caligari Truespace 2.0 - a feature that was previously only
available to those of us with SGI hardware.

I for one would love to be able to use Imagine's features more intuitively,
and solid rendering previews would be a good start...

j.

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 11:56:42
Subject: Re: optimisation
From:    [e-mail] (ERNESTO POVEDA CORTES)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Imagineers,

      This will be my last post for a while as my server reorganises for
the new school-year. Anyway here come my little bit of sand...

  i heard about a patcher that make Imagine runs about 4-8 times faster
under the Cyberstorm 060 on the amiga. i don't know if it is a prog
that comes with the board or it is a piece of shareware...
  Any ideas?

--
'I will be back :|' -Terminator

email: [e-mail]  --> Ernesto Poveda Cortes (I am not a number :)

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 13:22:09
Subject: Re[2]: optimisation
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there, this bounced about a while back, the patch is called Cyberpatcher and

comes as part of the Cyberstorm install SW. I've not done any real tests with or

without it, so the 4-8 figure I can't confirm.

I does, however, patch some frequently used trig functions that 060 cpu's don't

contain as native, stopping non 060 native SW from causing interupts, that is
most of them at least (I think the new cloud and fire textures are a little
messy in this respect - real slow, but real nice;-).

Maybe Imagine 4.0 will have an 040/060 version - lets hope so...

Gary
_______________________________________________________________________________
>Subject: Re: optimisation
>From:    [e-mail] (ERNESTO POVEDA CORTES) at internet
>Date:    18/9/95  4:00 am
>
>Hi Imagineers,
>
> This will be my last post for a while as my server reorganises for
>the new school-year. Anyway here come my little bit of sand...
>
>  i heard about a patcher that make Imagine runs about 4-8 times faster
>under the Cyberstorm 060 on the amiga. i don't know if it is a prog
>that comes with the board or it is a piece of shareware...
>  Any ideas?
>
>--
>'I will be back :|' -Terminator
>
>email: [e-mail]  --> Ernesto Poveda Cortes (I am not a number :)


Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 14:00:00
Subject: Re: upgrading from Amiga to PC
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi

I just did the exact same upgrade from Amiga to PC last month. It cost
$100 for the PC version, plus another $100 if you want to join the
constant upgrade scheme and get the latest version (3.3), although it is
probably a bit late to join this now as the last upgrade was due to be
released this month.

The action editor is still a separate editor I'm afraid. I think Impulse
are not doing any major redesigns like that until version 4.0.

Here is a list of new features from v3.1.

*New in Version 3.1*
        1.  Added an "About" Box.
        2.  Extended "States" to include object attributes.
        3.  Improved and Extended DXF loading and saving.
        4.  Added FLC and ANIM global brush and backdrop support.
        5.  Added FLC and ANIM brush support.
        6.  Added ability to view Stills and Animations from within
Imagine.
        7.  Added Field Rendering.
        8.  Added access to object attributes from Stage Editor.
        9.  Added perspective viewing from objects and lights to Stage
Editor.
        10. Added "Smart Bones" to speed up subgroup assignment in
objects.

*New in Version 3.2*
        11. Added support for Hi-Res graphics workspace.
        12. Added support for 256 color graphics workspace.
        13. Added "Quick Attributes."
        14. Added "Set/Fill Edge Line" for stitching object together.
        15. Added "Pick More" to aid in picking face groups.
        16. Added "Hide Unpicked", "Unhide All", "Unhide Subgroup".
        17. Added "Smooth Edge Line" for object smoothing.
        18. Added Backdrops in editors for rotoscoping and persp matching.
        19. Added Fracture in Object mode to anti-laticize an object.
        20. Added "Scrub" bar to animation preview controls.

*New in Version 3.3*
        21. Added Smooth fracture.
        22. Added Variable Brightness to object attributes.
        23. Moved Randomize Colors to function menu.
        24. Added Mix/Morph control for intensity on ALL textures and
brushes.
        25. Added Specular Mapping.
        26. Added Hardness Mapping.
        27. Added Shininess Mapping.
        28. Added Brightness Mapping.
        29. Added Fog Length Mapping.
        30. Added Index Of Refraction Mapping.
        31. Added Ambient Light Mapping.
        32. Added Roughness Mapping.
        33. Added Previous/Next buttons for traversing texture list
quickly.
        34. Added Browse buttons to texture and brush requesters.
        35. Added 256 Color real-time texture preview.
        36. Added 256 color color pickers in texture requester.
        37. View Brush added to previewing brushes.
        38. QuickRender access directly from all attrib/txtr requesters.
        39. User defined Texture/brush labels added for clarifying
texture list.
        40. "Dup" Added to attrib req for copying textures/brushes.
        41. "Drop" Added to attrib req for dropping textures/brushes
quickly.
        42. "Disable/Enable" button added for turning textures on/off.
        43. Interactive point-and-click support added to text in texture
list.
        44. Real time previewing of renders as they happen in 256 col
displays.
        45. Support for unfinished FLC's added.
        47. Default object attributes added to preferences.
        48. Shaded View Edge drawing control added to Prefs (PC only).
        49. Replaced "Reflection Mapping" with "Environment Mapping."
        50. Added preferences option for startup editor.
        51. Added preferences option to set number of points in CSG
sphere.

Joe


Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 14:00:00
Subject: MGA Millennium
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I just bought a Matrox Millennium graphics card, and now I find that
Imagine doesn't like it. It displays a "Requested screen mode is not
supported though VESA interface" error after loading. So at the moment I
have no real-time texture or render preview, both of which I was really
getting to like having just got v3.3 last month.

According to the SVGA list on the Project Menu, there only a handful of
modes available; 0, 100, 4080, e800 and 4083, all of which are only 256
colours. As the card is supposed to be completely VESA 2.0 compatible, I
can only presume that Imagine is at fault somehow, or at least that's
what Matrox claim. I tried running the latest UniVesa v5.1, but that
doesn't recognise the Millennium so it's no use.

Has anyone else got one of these cards and found a way to run Imagine
properly?

Joe


Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 14:15:00
Subject: Shading bands
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> From: [e-mail]->-> My question is, I have an object that is pretty mu
ch a solid grey =col-> has specular set and hardness (255), with no texture.  Wh
en I rend=er-> image, I get very noticable areas where the shading changes. I th
i=s-> caused by me having a setting wrong ?  How do I get rid of it.-> I am rend
ering the imagine in iff-24, and looking at the image wit=h-> 64k colors.Simple.
 View the image in 16million (24 bit) color mode. As good as16-bit color is, you
 won't get rid of the dithering bands unless youhave a true 24-bit display.   /-
-----------------------------           ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der Som
men                     / __  /__/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.
            /___/ / \  /  /  /     / \  | [e-mail]
    HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |           "Blackouts make for nice breaks in the
day"   \_____________________________________________________________-> I am ren
dering the imagine in iff-24, and looking at the image wit=h 6-> colors.--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 14:24:29
Subject: Re: Minds Eye (again)
From:    Edward Chadez <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a previous letter, [e-mail] wrote:
}
} Ok, ok, ok, I got the point, allright?
}
} Jeez, all I did was ask a simple question. You didn't have to BOMB with=20
} with answers!
}
} ;-)
}

That's how "threads" get started.  One guy asks a question or has an idea,
and twenty thousand others throw in their two-cents.

Just my $0.02.  :-)

} Seriously, a great many thanks to all who answered. I appreciate it.
} And yes, I will buy them.
}

You -won't- be disapointed.

      -Ed
--
Edward Chadez                                     http://galileo.carl.org/
Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst (Systems Integration Team)
CARL Corporation                                             [phone]

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 17:31:12
Subject: Re: optimisation
From:    [e-mail] (Kaspar Stromme)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings, All. (j. in particular :)

>
> > Teraclipse Workstation (as advertised in VTU):
> > 166Mhz Apha
> > 17' monitor
> > 4x scsi cd-rom
> > 64 bit, 2MB graphics card
> > 16 MB RAM
> > 540 MB removable SCSI-3 HD
> > Windows NT 3.51
> >
> > PRICED AT $3995
> >
>
> Uh, like... so what?!!!  Where's the telephone number?  How do I buy one of
> these things if you don't include contact info - since you went to all the
> trouble of typing the details in, and yet missed one very crucial item, I
> tend to disbelieve this price.
>
> Got the number handy?  I'd like to place a couple of orders...

It's in VTU as mentioned above..pg. 27. If you don't read that magazine
the company is Bushey Virtual Construction and the number is
[phone].


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Kaspar Stromme                             40mhz68030/'882;9MB;340MB
  [e-mail]                          DCTV true-color system

  PC-MAC =3D PoliticalCorrect-MindAbsentComputing             IRC:KilZ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 17:46:00
Subject: Win95 and imagine???
From:    [e-mail] (Drift Dennis)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Could someone tell me if there are any advantages to imagine running it
under windows 95? or disadvantages? Is the rendering speed, or memory
constraints affected? I presently run both amigas and pc (windows 3.11).
thanks
 Drift Dennis
   {kc7ot}
 [e-mail]                     May The Force Be With You

 NightHawk Production
 3D graphics and animation
 9403 Marilla Dr
 Lakeside, California               The true miracle is that we exist at all,
 92040-2801                             let alone the we are here and now.
 PHONE [phone]
 FAX   [phone]       PLEASE STOP BY OUR WEB SITE, we would appreciate
                           hearing from you at http://www.nighthawk.com
   Using Amiga and PC technologies in symbotic harmony
****************************************************************************
******
A2k-030@50mhz+20Meg/A4k-040@40Mhz+50Meg/PAR/1stopMusicShop/+6gigHDspace&PC+20Meg

****^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^



 Drift Dennis
   {kc7ot}
 [e-mail]                     May The Force Be With You

 NightHawk Production
 3D graphics and animation
 9403 Marilla Dr
 Lakeside, California               The true miracle is that we exist at all,
 92040-2801                             let alone the we are here and now.
 PHONE [phone]
 FAX   [phone]       PLEASE STOP BY OUR WEB SITE, we would appreciate
                           hearing from you at http://www.nighthawk.com
   Using Amiga and PC technologies in symbotic harmony
****************************************************************************
******
A2k-030@50mhz+20Meg/A4k-040@40Mhz+50Meg/PAR/1stopMusicShop/+6gigHDspace&PC+20Meg

****^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^


Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 19:15:47
Subject: Re: ugly pork
From:    Edward Chadez <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a previous letter, Mike McCool wrote:
}
} If you (the original poster) do decide to work with DCTV, the native
} program, IFFtoDCTV is a beaut, with the RGB filter built in as an option.

Keep in mind, however, that IFFtoDCTV has a NTSC limiting filter which
removes stray pixels (like the built-in stars under 1.0 and 2.0).

} And you can even use AmigaDos's "dpat" command in conjunction with
} IFFtoDCTV to batch process your Imagn iff24's.
}

This isn't necessary since IFFtoDCTV has file pattern matching built in.
For example,

      IFFTODCTV pic.????

will convert all of the files named pic.???? in the directory to dctv
images (ie, pic.0001 will produce pic.0001.dctv).  Don't fall into a trap
by doing an IFFTODCTV pic.* (ie, pic.0001 will produce pic.0001.dctv which
will produce pic.0001.dctv.dctv, etc.).

One more note on DCTV:  3-bitplane images animate faster than 4-bitplanes.
While 4-bitplane (3 million colors?) look better than 3-bitplanes on a
single picture, the difference isn't as obvious during an animation.
Depending on the amount of delta changes per frame, I can get upto 30fps on
an A3000/25 using ANIM-5.  A faster CPU and/or a faster decompression
algorithm (ie, ANIM-7) should improve things.  Of course, more memory
always improves things, too.  :-)

Just my $0.02.

      -Ed
--
Edward Chadez                                     http://galileo.carl.org/
Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst (Systems Integration Team)
CARL Corporation                                             [phone]

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 20:52:58
Subject: Re: Single frame recording VCR
From:    ELeeT <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

please email it me too...

[e-mail]

thnx

--
ELeeT

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 21:56:41
Subject: Re: Shading bands
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sep 16,  3:20pm, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
>
> Yes and no. On solid color objects (like what is mentioned) even 24bit =
> color will not entirely remove the banding. a 24bit display has 256 =
> available levels for each of the Red, Green, and Blue color channels. =
> This means that any object that is a fully saturated, solid color will =
> only get rendered with a maximum of 256 (out of a possilbe 16.7M) =
> colors. This will produce, albeit very very faint, banding.

Uh, no..

The amount of colors you will get are 256 x 256 x 256 which equals 16777216.  It

is true that even with this, there might be an extremely subtle banding, (which
is why some high-end systems use 10 bit per color channel digital video devices
and not 8 bit per channel systems; i.e. 24 bit systems), you are not likely to
see any banding with normal equipment.

>
> Good dithering techniques (ala ADPro2.5) can help in clean up of a =
> render such as this. Load the finished 24 bit rendering into ADPro and =
> have ADPro render it to a 24bit screen with Floyd-Steinberg dithering =
> on. This should erradicate the banding inherent in the picture.

There is no dithering done in 24 bit displays.  When you reduce the color
resolution, like to 256 colors, dithering is then performed to trick the eye to
see more colors than are really there.

Craig





--
 _____________________________________________________________________________
            __
          #####       Craig Hoffman
         #~ ~###      [e-mail]
          @ @ #?)
          <  /|       Walt Disney Feature Animation
          `-' /
          |__/
 _____________________________________________________________________________


Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 22:35:54
Subject: Shading Bands
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Craig Hoffman says, in part:
>The amount of colors you will get are 256 x 256 x 256 which equals 1677721
What was being said, however, was in reference to a solid color object.
If the base color of the objects is RGB <255,0,0> or full red, the most
colors that could honestly be used would be the 255 levels of full red.
Granted, lighting affects this as well, so maybe maximum would be greater,
but nowhere near the hardware limit of 16.8 million.
I agree with using ADPro dithering, which CAN be used, i believe, by selecting
"Apply Map", then saving the resulting 24 bit file.
JN

Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 22:58:33
Subject: Re: quickrender rendering method selector
From:    Rick Dolishny <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


BINGO!

On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Scott Krehbiel wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Bob Arnold wrote:
>
> >
> > How about instead you pop into the Preferences and tell it to do a Trace
> > and specify a resolution instead?  I'll do a gnarly ugly object with
> > super lo-res and scanline until it looks "okay" then in prefs I'll tell
> > it Trace mode to see what the refractions will look like, then when I'm
> > really feeling pleased I'll pop out to the Project ed. and do a full render.

> >
> > Best Fishes,   -Bob
> >
> >
>
> My point is that I find hopping back and forth from the preferences
> editor to be a pain in the rear.  I know it's not that big a deal,
> but it seems to me that it'd eliminate some extra hassle if there
> were a gadget there in the quickrender requestor where you could
> specify the rendering method.
>
> Scott Krehbiel
> [e-mail]
>
>
>

Rick Dolishny          [e-mail]
Ardee Productions - Toronto, Ontario


Date:    Monday, 18 September 1995 23:56:34
Subject: Re: AutoPEG
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interim feelings about the program AutoPEG:
I love it!  It sits patiently in the background and, as soon as it senses
that a file opened is JPG, it diverts the loading task to an IFF-24 image
which it creates on the New mail on node BOS1F from IN%"[e-mail]"
spot from the JPG, in a directory you select
(default of RAM works fine usually)
Only problems I have encountered, which I have relayed to the author with
the exhortation that he try to address them, are:
1>  Imagine cannot use the same JPG image twice in one frame, I'm not
    sure where the cause lies.  I tried rendering a tiled background, where
    each tile was mapped with one of two JPGs, no dice.  Only worked for
    a pair of tiles, which I then tiled manually with DPaint (making a
    WorkBench Background)  Any number of JPG's can apparently be used in
    a frame, but if the same one is used twice, imagine errors out.
2>  AutoPEG diverts ALL JPG reads, including anything like VPEG,ADPro,
    HAMLab, and others where you might want it to read the original.  Granted,
    most cases this can be lived with, or AutoPEG can be run again to disable
    it after Imagine finishes "Initializing", but it's a little annoying
    in some circumstances.

I'm gonna keep pushing this proggie, and see what it can do, but I'd have
to, based upon experience so far, give it a definite Thumbs Up!
This is a fantastic little addition to Imagine rendering on Amiga.  If I
ever lose it now, I'd really miss it.  I guess that's the true test:
could I live without it?  Not happily, now.
JN
PS: the program is on Aminet.com, but I don't remember where offhand.
try HTTP://www.aminet.com, search for AUTOPEG.

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 00:04:06
Subject: AutoPEG location correction
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, WWW.aminet.com doesn't exist.  ftp to aminet.com goes to NETNET's
aminet mirror, that's where my brain pulled that from.  Here's how I
reached it by web, which shows where it is by FTP as well:
http://is.eunet.ch/aminetbin/find?AUTOPEG
Page 1 of 1

   Aminet: Back to [1]top
   ___________________________________

   1 files matching 'AUTOPEG'.  Click archive name to download, description to
   view readme, or enter another search string.

[2]AutoPEG1.55.lha      gfx/conv    75K+[3]Background JPEG decom
pression


Again, sorry 'bout the screwup.  must be 'cause it's midnight, after a few
strong beers, after a 18 hour day, after being up all night with a crying
9 month old.
JN

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 02:10:56
Subject: Re: quickrender rendering method selector
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Scott, on Sep 17 you wrote:

> I've been thinking that one feature that I'd REALLY love
> to see in imagine is an option to select the rendering method
> from the quickrender requestor.
>
> I often create a scene that I'd like to see in trace mode,
> though I usually use scanline rendering for quickrenders.
>
> .....

I sometimes like to switch to a higher resolution to QRender certain
textures. I've created several configs and use the Load From prefs option,
it's quick and no typing or remembering Presets is necessary. A few extra
options in the QR requestor would'nt hurt though.

-- Bob

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 03:36:00
Subject: Quickrender rendering method s
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scott,

I completely agree and I have sent Email to Impulse about this, but
so far no dice. Since 4.0 is apparently only a few weeks away, I
suppose its too late for them to build it in if it isn't already
there.

What I would really like is to be able to toggle between Quickrender
resolutions w/o having to go to prefs. For example, I usually do a
first render in quarterscreen, before I go full screen and it is a
royal pain to keep having to leave the editor.

Floater

 >
 >I've been thinking that one feature that I'd REALLY love
 >to see in imagine is an option to select the rendering method
 >from the quickrender requestor.
 >
 >I often create a scene that I'd like to see in trace mode,
 >though I usually use scanline rendering for quickrenders.
 >
 >It'd be a lot easier if there were a toggle switch with rendering
 >methods there along with light angle, etc.
 >
 >Is there an EMail address to send this to Impulse, or do I have
 >to snail-mail this to them??  Anyone know of an easy way to get
 >a message to them??
 >
 >Scott Krehbiel
 >[e-mail]
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >----------
 >

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 09:36:27
Subject: Walker2 cycleobject on Aminet!
From:    Mr Krzysztof Korski <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Hi friends,
I have a pleasure to let you know about corrected version of
Armoured Walker. If you want to have it just look for it in
"gfx/3dobj" directory in wuarchiwe.wustl.edu.
                         *******************

You should remember that it is a PostCardWare object, so if you
like and use it, send me a colorful postcard from the town you
live in. All information in .readme file.
                                    Yours sincerely,
                                    Krzysztof Korski

well known as...  [e-mail]



Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 13:01:06
Subject: RE: detail editor particles
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

When using the detail editor particles feature with Imagine objects as the
particles, is there any way to get the textures and maps of the original
objects to show when used as particles?  They always seem to use the base
object attributes.

For example, if I particle a plane and use a flower object as the particle
objects, the flowers all show up as grey (the plane's settings -- unchanged
from default).

Alan.

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 13:06:00
Subject: Re: RE: detail editor particles
From:    Michael North <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> When using the detail editor particles feature with Imagine objects as the
> particles, is there any way to get the textures and maps of the original
> objects to show when used as particles?  They always seem to use the base
> object attributes.
>
> For example, if I particle a plane and use a flower object as the particle
> objects, the flowers all show up as grey (the plane's settings -- unchanged
> from default).

I just ran into the same problem, except that I couldn't even get
phong shading on the particle object.  It's fairly easy to get
colors and other attributes onto the particle objects, by changing
the attributes of the base object.  But I don't see how to keep
something like a map or a complicated texture on the particle object.

Michael

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 15:11:00
Subject: Win95 and imagine???
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> From: [e-mail] (Drift Dennis)->-> Could someone tell me if there a
re any advantages to imagine runni=ng-> under windows 95? or disadvantages? Is t
he rendering speed, or mem=ory-> constraints affected? I presently run both amig
as and pc (windows =3.1No advantage since you can't run it "under" Win 95. Buck
up, Impulse =isworking on a Windows version of Imagine. Should ship between next
 mon=thand Christmas '96. :)   /------------------------------           ___   _
__  ___   ___  | Mike van der Sommen                     / __  /__/ /__/  /_   \
 /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.                     /___/ / \  /  /  /     / \  | mike.
[e-mail]     HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |           "Black
outs make for nice breaks in the day"   \_______________________________________
______________________--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - (8
05) 683-1388

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 15:26:00
Subject: Decal mapping
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> From: [e-mail]->-> For you bottle example, simply copy the po
lygons that make up that= pa-> of the bottle to another layer, Stretch them just
 a little bit so =the-> diameter is slightly bigger than the bottle itself, rena
me these-> polygons' surface, export/save both layers and then apply your lab=el
-> image map to the polygons you copied/stretched and use Additive or= a-> trans
parency map to elliminate the unwanted parts.Yes, that technique was my "last re
sort" project. I was hoping thatLW had a similar "genlock color 0" brush widget
device like Imagine t=hatI was just unfamiliar with.Thank you for your quick res
ponses!   /------------------------------           ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike
 van der Sommen                     / __  /__/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara,
Ca.                     /___/ / \  /  /  /     / \  | [e-mail]
.silcom.com     HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |           "Blackouts make for nice br
eaks in the day"   \_____________________________________________________________--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - (805) 6
83-1388

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 17:12:26
Subject: Thanks for ugly ham responses
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just wanted to say "thanks" for helping me out to each and every person
that responded.  I was overwhelmed at the support!  Now just one problem
remains, where can I get my grubby hands on HamLab?  I tried aminet, not
there (as far as I could see under gfx/conv).

Sorry to be sort of off the subject here.  But it *is* related to
Imagine, in a way ;)

[=====================================================================]
[      Damon L. LaCaille     |  A3000 @ 25MHz 10MB RAM / 540MB HD     ]
[=====================================================================]
[ Email - [e-mail]    | If you're not making 50 mistakes a day ]
[ WWW  - Be watching for my  |   then you're not trying hard enough!  ]
[        WWW home page here! |-=* IMAGINE - Why use anything else? *=-]
[=====================================================================]



Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 17:44:58
Subject: Monitor
From:    Darren Priestnall <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is anyone selling a VGA or SVGAmonitor (at least 12 inch) ?
I need it to use my new Cybergraphics card which doesn't
like my traditional Philips monitor for my Amiga.

I'm particularly interested in the following monitors
although I will consider any 15 inch multisync.

Taxan 580plus LR
IIyama Vision Master 15"
MicroVitec 1438 or 1440 (I'm not too sure of the difference)

Oh yes, I will be selling my current Philips CM8833-II once
I get my new VGAmonitor for my cybergraphics card.


--
~===========================================================================~
   3D animation's and carbon still's designed and rendered to order
   using Lightwave, Real3D, Imagine, Adpro, Photogenics, ImageFx.....

  Amiga 3000, 10Meg ram, 240 Meg HD, Cybervision64 24 bit card, OS3.1,
  Supra Fax 288 modem, High density drive and a user of Shapeshifter.

  Email: [e-mail].......also experienced Lab analyst.


Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 17:50:20
Subject: Re: detail editor particles
From:    [e-mail] (joop van de wege)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>When using the detail editor particles feature with Imagine objects as the
>particles, is there any way to get the textures and maps of the original
>objects to show when used as particles?  They always seem to use the base
>object attributes.
I have applied a brush map to the plane and then made it into a particle
object and I still see pieces of the brush map on the particles, but then I
used no external objects.

>For example, if I particle a plane and use a flower object as the particle
>objects, the flowers all show up as grey (the plane's settings -- unchanged
>from default).
Maybe you need to give your external object the attributes you applied to the
plane.?

Joop

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 17:50:46
Subject: Re: win95 and imagine???
From:    Dylan Neill <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Drift Dennis wrote:

>
>
> Could someone tell me if there are any advantages to imagine running it
> under windows 95? or disadvantages? Is the rendering speed, or memory
> constraints affected? I presently run both amigas and pc (windows 3.11).
> thanks
>  Drift Dennis
>    {kc7ot}
>  [e-mail]                     May The Force Be With You
>

Well you can't actually run Imagine with Windows 95 in the background. It
has to run in normal DOS mode (which is easy to set up in Windows 95) The
only real advantage is that you can set it up as an icons which will
reboot the computer with a custom Autoexec.bat and config.sys (no more
huge boot menus ! :)

---
                               |\ /|
                                o O
  ________________________oOO_=( ^ )=_OOo___________________________
 |                        '''     U   '''                           |
 | Gumby Death Man (Dylan Neill) Amiga 1200/6/120  486DX2-66/24/500 |
 | Email: [e-mail]   WWW: http://www.pcug.org.au/~dylann/ |
 |__________________________________________________________________|


Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 18:31:30
Subject: Re: Shading Bands
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sep 18,  9:35pm, [e-mail] wrote:
>

> I agree with using ADPro dithering, which CAN be used, i believe, by selecting

> "Apply Map", then saving the resulting 24 bit file.
> JN
>-- End of excerpt from [e-mail]


ADPro does not dither 24 bit images.  Why would it?  It does need to fake any
colors- they are all represented in the 24 bits of color information.

It only dithers lower color resolution images to make them look like 24 bit.
 When it dithers, it trades spatial resolution for color resolution.

I don't understand this thread.  The original poster was looking at a 24 bit
image with 65,000 colors.  When you lower color resolution without dithering,
you will get banding on large areas with slight color variation.  This is
obvious.

24 bit represents all colors available to you.  No banding will occur when you
display a true 24 bit image on true 24 bit devices, so there is no need to
dither anything.

Craig



--
 _____________________________________________________________________________
            __
          #####       Craig Hoffman
         #~ ~###      [e-mail]
          @ @ #?)
          <  /|       Walt Disney Feature Animation
          `-' /
          |__/
 _____________________________________________________________________________


Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 18:32:00
Subject: Re: upgrading from Amiga to PC Imagine
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>  I just upgraded my version to the PC v3.0 but it cost me $200!!  How
>did you get
>it for $100.  I had to pay  $300 in total to get to 3.3.  Did I get
>screwed around???

What can I say? All I did was phone Impulse and ask for the PC version
and the constant upgrade plan, and I was told it cost $200. Maybe it is a
special deal if you go for both at the same time.

I checked my credit card statement and they definitely only charged me
the $200.

Joe


Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 18:32:00
Subject: Re: MGA Millennium
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>  Well, I'm running 3.0 with the millenium with 2 megs, and am having no
>problems
>what so ever.  I am however getting that same prob with the graphic modes
>though.

>  I should also be getting 3.3 later this week, so I'll be able to test
and
>see if it's a prob
>with 3.3.  I'll let you know.

I am already running v3.3, and it is only the best of the new features
that were added *after* v3.0 that don't work with the Millennium. So I am
afraid you will be in exactly the same boat when you get v3.3!!

>  Dosn't it suck being on the bleeding edge of technology?

Yep, I guess it will be fixed eventually when Impulse release the Windows
version of Imagine.

Joe


Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 21:04:00
Subject: Re: win95 and imagine???
From:    Sharky <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Mike Vandersommen wrote:

>
> -> From: [e-mail] (Drift Dennis)
> ->
> -> Could someone tell me if there are any advantages to imagine running
> -> under windows 95? or disadvantages? Is the rendering speed, or memory
> -> constraints affected? I presently run both amigas and pc (windows 3.1
>
> No advantage since you can't run it "under" Win 95. Buck up, Impulse is
> working on a Windows version of Imagine. Should ship between next month
> and Christmas '96. :)
>

For those of you who run the pharlap extender stuff to run Imagine under
win 3.1, it works under Win95 too, with the added bonus of being able to
use your Wacom Artpad too.  I'm using the latest wacom drivers from
www.wacom.com.

Aloha,
      Sharky

[e-mail]/CIS#70614,2011 __   v  Home Page : http://aloha.com/~sharky
WebSurfer & Fun Guy,Funky    __/  \ >*< Home Server:http://www.websharx.com
WWW Page Designs,       ____/    ) | ^  Hawaii Related Links and Etcetera's,
Tech. Planning  /\_____/          } \   3D Modelling & Animation Art,Objects
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(_________ALOHA!_______)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 21:51:23
Subject: RE: Shading Bands
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Jeff Hanna wrote:
"
> Sorry, but for the last time, your wrong. with only 256 available shades
of each primary color (RGB), solid objects of those primary colors, and
ones of black/grey/white will appear banded even when rendered at 24 bit.
> > Do the math. 256R x 256G x 256B = 16.7M all colors. What do you think
that 256R is? It's the available shades of Red. a solid red object only
has 8 bits of color attributable to it. This means that at best, even on a
24bit display, it will have 256 available shades. > > If 24bit gives you
all colors (which it doesn't) why is there a 48bit TIFF format? Not that
it's widely used, granted.
>"

I advise to just give up on this guy, people. He's got his mind wrapped
around a wrong-headed interpretation of color space, and I don't think
any amount of verbal description of how it actually behaves will dissuade
him. I'm confident that one day he will see an illustration or description
that will make sense to him, and Voila! all will become clear. Until then,
let's not waste any more bandwidth on this, ok? Thanks.

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 22:45:27
Subject: Re: Optimise
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I use an Amiga as of now, but am considering buying a DX4/100 or P-75.
The only reason I'd consider a DX4 is because it's about $200 cheaper and
it'd be cheaper to upgrade to the Pentium after the P6 comes out.  I
really would like to have a faster renderer right now, even if it means I
can't multi-task...

[=====================================================================]
[      Damon L. LaCaille     |  A3000 @ 25MHz 10MB RAM / 540MB HD     ]
[=====================================================================]
[ Email - [e-mail]    | If you're not making 50 mistakes a day ]
[ WWW  - Be watching for my  |   then you're not trying hard enough!  ]
[        WWW home page here! |-=* IMAGINE - Why use anything else? *=-]
[=====================================================================]



Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 23:17:45
Subject: Re: Shading Bands flame
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I stand corrected, ADPro Apply Map only applies color map changes, although
dithering WOULD be useful.

To [e-mail]:
>
>I've never said this to anyone on a newslist group, but, excuse me, but
>you haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. If the base color
>is full red, there isn't going to be any "banding" is there, now? If the
>color is modulted away from "full red" it will be done using not 256
>shades of red but all three 8-bit colors, and thus be one of the 16
>million expressable colors, which while not being all the possible colors
>in the universe, will exceed the ability of the human eye to
>differentiate. There will be no need for dithering.
>
>On Mon, 18 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
>
>> Craig Hoffman says, in part:
>> >The amount of colors you will get are 256 x 256 x 256 which equals 1677
>> What was being said, however, was in reference to a solid color object.
>> If the base color of the objects is RGB <255,0,0> or full red, the most
>> colors that could honestly be used would be the 255 levels of full red.
>
>Wrong. Just *one* color, *one* level or shade.

Apologies for the echo, but
You haven't the faintest idea what YOU'RE talking about, it would seem.
Try this test:
Create a sphere, color  RGB <255,0,0> no reflection, specular, transparency,
just plain old RED.
Render a frame with that object center stage, with as many lights as you choose,

al
  though one illustrates the point well enough for a child to see the results:
The rendered image consists of a range of colors from pure red (or as close
to pure red as the lighting in the scene allows, perhaps <250,0,0>, fading
to black in the full shadow.  This is a MAXIMUM OF 256 colors.  Now, I also
allowed as how there could be further colors inherent in the scene, namely
speclular highlights.  Take the test render, apply Specular RGB <255,0,0> to
it, set hardness middlin (I used 42 for the test image I'm mailing you)
render it again, and you get the following colors possible:
Full red fading to full black, and any point on the sphere within the area
affected by Imagine's specular highlight will add some GreenBlue component,
ALWAYS G=B, so as to have only red fading to black or to white, NO OTHER
COLORS ARE POSSIBLE, excepting colored lights or interaction with other colors
within the modelled environment the object is rendered with.  Further, although
this would seem to indicate 65,535 possible colors (black to full red, or to
full white within the highlight, (256x256)-1) you actually only can get half
that number, since the GB component will NEVER be greater than the R component,
which would produce a non red/black/white combination.
Any comments from the civilized members of the IML?
Joel NewKirk

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 23:25:40
Subject: Question about MPEG capture card . . .
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that many of you guys dabble in video along with your modeling and
animation, and I'm looking for a good MPEG capture card (for the PC) which
will pull in full-screen NTSC video at 30 fps. Does anyone have a suggestion?
 How about a price range of about $500 to $700?  If you have experience with
a certain card, or know of a good deal, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

                                                    Cory
                                                    ([e-mail])

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 23:32:40
Subject: Single frame recording VCR
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A VCR with flying erase heads and frame-by-frame forward/reverse control
would seem to me to be capable of (albeit manual) single frame recording.
What am I missing here?  Obviously it's not that simple, but I've never
worked with recording animations to tape, and never even looked into it.
JN

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 23:34:54
Subject: Re: win95 and imagine???
From:    Fredster <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- [ From: Fredster * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


> For those of you who run the pharlap extender stuff to run Imagine under
win
> 3.1, it works under Win95 too, with the added bonus of being able to use
your

Say what???

Could you elaborate pretty please?





--
--------------------------------------------
Fred Aderhold
[e-mail]
http://www.netrix.net/users/fredster

Daddy, what does formatting drive C mean?
--------------------------------------------

Date:    Tuesday, 19 September 1995 23:45:06
Subject: Re: AutoPEG
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Final analysis:
I love it!  with the one caveat that Imagine can't seem to load the same
image twice in one frame, which the author (John Corigliano) E'd me he thinks
he knows why, and a possible correction, this program answers all my prayers
about a hard drive swiftly filling to capacity with 24 bit brush maps.  I had
taken to compressing all maps not used in my current project with JPEG, then
converting back to 24iff when I ran into an error working with a previous
project or object.  NO MORE!  with a few exceptions of hand drawn, lo-res
images (down to about 4x4 pixels...) all my maps are now JPEG'd.  I just
freed up over 15 megs of space on my GRAPHICS: partition, more to come when
I go in and JPG all old rendered images inside the projects.
The only thing I can say about this proggie is GET IT.  If you, like me,
run into the multiple-use-brushmap problem, E-Mail the author (address included
in the docs) and let him know, maybe he'd implement the change he mentioned.
Best of all, AutoPEG's FreeWare.  No strings, just a request that if you like
it you email him, or send him 'something cool'.  Hmmm, wonder what he'd think
about a mailbox full of rendered images?
Joel

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 00:01:47
Subject: Re: Shading Bands
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>24 bit represents all colors available to you.  No banding will occur when
you
>display a true 24 bit image on true 24 bit devices, so there is no need to
>dither anything.

Absolutely, positively FALSE!!! I don't know what kind of 24 bit color
devices you folks are using, But on a fully saturated object of one color -
regardless of the color used - only a limited number of shades -256- are
available. The human eye can most certainly see more than 256 shades of a
given color. There is DEFINITE color banding on 24 bit color devices with
large areas of single color gradient shading. On a 32 bit color device (one
that actually uses all 32 bits for color data) this banding is what I might
call "subtle". My definition of subtle being "difficult to perceive".

On the subject of dithering, most applications do not dither 24 bit data
because of this mistaken assumption that this is all that can be seen.
However, even 32 bit data can be functionally dithered. Unless you are
talking about completely analog data, any 2 steps in digital color
representation may be dithered to produce yet another shade. This is because
they are in fact STEPS. Color data in nature is infinitely variable.

Talk to somebody that does high quality professional imaging/publishing. They
will scoff at the images created with 24bit devices, and express
dissatisfaction at images created with 30/32 bit devices.

This is more than just my opinion. I work with people that do this sort of
thing for a living. And it is my job to make sure they can do their job by
supplying the computer related expertise that lets them do it.

Falko

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 01:34:37
Subject: Optimise
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Received from GITD.PSG024  2164526              20SEP95  14.31
  -> IBMMAIL.INTERNET      IBMMAIL INTERNET               IBM
Well ... well ... well,

Just amazed at the response of the subject relating to the P6
and on the fly rendering/solid preview.

Thanx for the response everyone, I'm still going to wait till the
P6 comes out ... so the pentium prices go down :D

One more curiosity ... this isn't to start a platform war, but
I was wondering wether it is worth finding out how many
subscribed members of IML use IBM, Amiga or Both.  I am open for
any suggestions.  (oh...unless this has been done already)

C-Ya
Vic

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 06:21:14
Subject: RE:BANDING & SFR-VCR
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi!

All this discussion about color banding is quite amusing, guys!? but let me say

this much, for Television and video work, 24bit is quite sufficient and the
banding, even if seen on a computer monitor, most often disapears on TV,
why?......Becouse of the limited bandwith of the (analog) tv signal, but you
often have to run the signal trough a chroma limiter of some kind to get away
ilegal colors that will, you belive me, bleed. It would be cool to have that
feature in Imagine. But I agree on having a 32 or 48bit format for print and
movie/slide work.

On the question about single frame recorder's, dont buy one, get DPS-PAR or
something similar. A single frame recorder are yesterdays news, using a time
code and having to do pre-rolls for every captured frame, and drop-out's occour

very often on cheaper decks. And the cost is not that good either. And it's very

time consuming as well. But if you realy, realy want one, try getting your hands

on a second hand Betacam SP/MII recorder.

Later

Tom Renderbrandt


Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 08:45:21
Subject: Is Essence for PC shipping?
From:    [e-mail] (Goeran Ehrsson)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is Essence for PC shipping?
I ordered it one month ago and haven't heard anything from
Worley Laboratories (Apex).
Has anyone of you receive it yet?

- Goran

--
[e-mail], Goran Ehrsson, Abalon AB, Box 11129, 161 11  BROMMA, SWEDEN.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tired of reading comics? Try a Microsoft manual:
"You can determine the BIFF version by testing the high-order byte of the
BOF record. This record is always the first record in a BIFF file.
For example, the BOF record in a BIFF4 chart file may appear: ..."


Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 09:36:41
Subject: Re: Optimise
From:    [e-mail] (Dennis Grant)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello augioh4b (augioh4b), in <[e-mail]> on Sep 2
0 you wrote:

> One more curiosity ... this isn't to start a platform war, but
> I was wondering wether it is worth finding out how many
> subscribed members of IML use IBM, Amiga or Both.  I am open for
> any suggestions.  (oh...unless this has been done already)

Amiga only.

An A4000/040/14/1Gig at work, and an A3000/030/6/120 at home for games, my
wife's papers, and the occasional render fix.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Grant               Cycor User Support - HTML Developer - Graphic artist
[e-mail]     Amiga 4000/'030/6/120/'882 40/2XCDROM/USR14.4/Idek 17"/SLIP

                Visit Trog's Cave! http://www.cycor.ca/TCave/


Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 10:58:40
Subject: Re: AutoPEG
From:    Mike McCool <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Joel, et al,

      Well, I'd love to get autoPeg, but I sure can't find it.  And
both those http's you gave were unreachable by my server.  Could you by
chance post me privately, with the exact site address where you
downloaded AutoPeg from?

      Thanks a meg.

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 10:59:00
Subject: Is DCTV Supported?
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I picked up a second-hand DCTV unit for my Amiga 1200.  A couple
of problems...the RGB pass-thru doesn't work, and I don't have
any utilities such as IFFtoDCTV.  Also, there doesn't seem to
be any way to show DCTV animations.

Is Digitial Creations still around, and do they still support
DCTV?  It's pretty old technology, now, I realize, but I really
would like to make better (read: 24 bit colour without the memory
movement problems) and longer Imagine animations.

I'm able to get an 8 Meg Ham8 anim overscan running at about 20 fps.
Of course, there are lots of deltas involved, and I'm using anim-8
format.  This results in about a 4 second video clip.  I'd like to
try using DCTV to make longer scenes.

\KenR

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 11:51:15
Subject: Re: Optimise
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Damon writes:
>The only reason I'd consider a DX4 is because it's about $200 cheaper
>and it'd be cheaper to upgrade to the Pentium after the P6 comes out.

Exactly!  I opted for the DX4, and plugged the extra $$ into more memory.
The performance improvement over my old '040 28 was most noticable.
It seems that Imagine's math does work much better with Intel chips,
i.e. it uses a lot of integer math.  If memory serves, after Imagine
for Windows appears, there is the possibilty of it showing up on other
platforms such as the Power PC. I have a feeling that Impulse doesn't
have the man power to fine tune the code for the various processors,
but is supposing that as processor power grows ever greater, the time
loss will be negligable.

Unless, of course, you are a perfectionist, and there seem to be an
awful lot of those among tracers.

Greg Denby

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 13:00:00
Subject: Re: Re: RE: detail editor particles
From:    Michael North <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Michael- To get an image or complex map to stay attached to its
> respective facets or particles you need to use the states function and
> the "lockstate" name in the attributes requestor. I've got a killer
> animation of a friends face mapped to a particlized sphere with it
> swirling off into nothing ala "Lawnmower Man"... Works like a champ.
>
 I _think_ we're talking about different things.  I'm not talking
about a way to get an image map to stick onto an object after it's
particalized.  I (and I _think_ the original poster) am talking
about putting a map (or even a texture) onto an object and then
using that _with_ its own texture or map as a particle object
in the detail editor.  Objects used as particle objects don't seem
to be able to hang onto their own attributes.  But I will certainly
try lockstate to see if it will work in this case.

Michael

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 13:12:58
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>Windows Version (3.1/95/NT):
> - Retail price $1695US!

Kinda reminds me of Sculpt4D when they abandoned the Amiga to go to the Mac.
Same product as before (basically) just a new price (x10).

MikeH, please tell us this is a type'doh.  Maybe $169.50?  OK maybe a <little>
more.

Impulse, who are your customers?  What is your market?  Reality check needed?
Not many of <your> customers cannot afford 3D Studio, or other expensive
packages.  Which is one reason we are <your> customers.  Of course cool
functionality is another.  But do you offer 'leading edge' functionality worth
thousands of dollars?  Are you prepared to compete with the Big Boys?

There are many players in the 3D market, most trying for dominance.  I received

last week a offer for Ray Dream Designer 3.0 (Mac or Windows) for $99 smackers.

90-day money back guarantee if not satisfied.  Sure it doesn't compare well to
Imagine, but Ray Dream is probably snagging customers.  Volume is the key to
dominance, not high price.

Maybe I'm being touchy and the upgrade for <us> existing customers will be
affordable.

-Scott
[e-mail]


Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 14:32:00
Subject: Shading Bands
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> From: [e-mail]-> I don't understand this thread.  The original po
ster was looking a=t a-> image with 65,000 colors.  When you lower color resolut
ion without= di-> you will get banding on large areas with slight color variatio
n.  =Thi-> obvious.You'd have thought it would die with the obvious.......Looks
like the children are bored. Maybe it's time for anotherversion release of Imagi
ne!! :)   /------------------------------           ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike
 van der Sommen                     / __  /__/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara,
Ca.                     /___/ / \  /  /  /     / \  | [e-mail]
.silcom.com     HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |           "Blackouts make for nice br
eaks in the day"   \____________________________________________________________
_--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 15:47:55
Subject: Glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Gary Beeton - SED Systems)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey all,

I just got a glossy colour brochure from Impulse.  The brochure is
targeted at present owners of Imagine to updrade to 4.0, and features
lots of pretty pictures from our very own Tom "Renderbrandt" Granberg
(excellent work by the way) and others.  It also answers some of the
questions that have been floting about on the list.

Features:

      It lists all(?) of the improvements from 3.0.  If you subtract
the ones that are already in 3.3 you are left with:
      - Metaballs editor with Special Effects
      - Light arrays... soft edge shadows
      - Motion Blur
      - Object Smoothing

Cost:

      Up until October 31 1995 the upgrade price will be as follows:
        - PC 3.0              $100US
      - Amiga 1.1 or earlier  $300
      - Amiga 2.0             $200
      - Amiga 3.0             $100
      - Amiga 1.1 to PC       $400
      - Amiga 2.0 to PC       $300
      - Amiga 3.0 to PC       $200

      After October 31, 3.0 to 4.0 will be $299US.

Windows Version (3.1/95/NT):

      - Expect delivery for fall 95.
      - Retail price $1695US!
      - Cost to upgrade from other versions is TBD.



Later...
Gary Beeton
[e-mail]

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 16:12:41
Subject: DX4-100Mhz
From:    Red Hawk <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have try the same rendering with AMIGA 040 25Mhz & a DX4-100 both with 16Mb

I have see that the DX4 100Mhz is 3 times faster than the 68040 25Mhz
  but this system is not Multitasking............

 .---------------------------------------------------------.
 | E-Mail: [e-mail]              __/// |
 | Amiga 4000/40 25Mhz 18Mb 2.0Gb SCSI II            \XX/  |
 | AMD DX4 100Mhz 49Mb 4.45Gb SCSI II                      |
 | Home Page:                                              |
 | http://cdc715_0.cdc.polimi.it/~qua1397/                 |
 `---------------------------------------------------------'

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 16:33:00
Subject: Re: PC Essence
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>Is Essence for PC shipping?
>I ordered it one month ago and haven't heard anything from
>Worley Laboratories (Apex).
>Has anyone of you receive it yet?

I also ordered it and have not heard a word from them. Also they have not
replied to the 3 emails I have sent them since, which I think is pretty
damn rude if you ask me!

Joe


Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 17:55:40
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    "Anime a day..." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 20 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> 90-day money back guarantee if not satisfied.  Sure it doesn't compare well to

> Imagine, but Ray Dream is probably snagging customers.  Volume is the key to
> dominance, not high price.                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


  Did anyone else get a pain in their stomach after reading this part??

I rather not eat at McDonalds either...

Bill


Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 19:00:04
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    Edward Chadez <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a previous letter, Gary Beeton - SED Systems wrote:
}
}     After October 31, 3.0 to 4.0 will be $299US.

Can we expect then that the upgrade from earlier versions of Imagine to
4.0 will escalate as well?

Just lovely.

So, what's the status of Amiga's Real-3d these days?  ;-)

      -Ed
--
Edward Chadez                                     http://galileo.carl.org/
Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst (Systems Integration Team)
CARL Corporation                                             [phone]

Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 23:44:00
Subject: Re: Upgrading from Amiga to PC Imagine
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>What can I say? All I did was phone Impulse and ask for the PC version
>and the constant upgrade plan, and I was told it cost $200. Maybe it is a
>special deal if you go for both at the same time.

>I checked my credit card statement and they definitely only charged me
>the $200.

After posting this I began to wonder if Impulse had actually charged me
for the constant upgrade program. But I managed to find the invoice they
sent me, and it says:

Imagine 3.0 PC version        100.00
Service program for one year  100.00

Plus the $10 shipping to England, it cost me $210 in total.

Joe


Date:    Wednesday, 20 September 1995 23:52:26
Subject: Re: win95 and imagine???
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[e-mail]
In a message dated 95-09-19 20:26:46 EDT, you write:

>For those of you who run the pharlap extender stuff to run Imagine under
>win 3.1, it works under Win95 too, with the added bonus of being able to
>use your Wacom Artpad too.  I'm using the latest wacom drivers from
>www.wacom.com.
>
>Aloha,
>     Sharky

Details, please!!! What do you mean using pharlap extender to run Imagine
under windows?!? I know pharlap is dos memory management system but I thought
the application had to be compiled with it to use it?? If you know some dirty
little secret you better give!! After all, I   know    where    you    live
  !!!!  heh, heh ( your e-address )

NOW GIVE!! Or am I gonna havta send the boys over with some subtle cues?

Falko

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 00:52:55
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    Ted Stethem <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


  If you have a PC with Windows, check out the fully useable demo of Soft
F/X at http://www.bytebybyte.com. This is from the guys that used to do
Sculpt4D. They have also gone cross-platform, from Mac to PC.
  Soft F/X already runs under Windows, and if you try it, you will have
to agree it has a very intuitive, common-sense interface, very slick.
  Also, it ray-traces about 5X faster than Imagine and has CAST SHADOWS.
Plus, it will run on practically any screen size you want. I have run it
on a 1280x1024 screen and it is really slick.
  Sure, it doesn't have every bell and whistle Imagine has, but Impluse
could learn a lot about "friendly" programming for the Windoze
environment by taking a look at it.

On Wed, 20 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> >Windows Version (3.1/95/NT):
> > - Retail price $1695US!
>
> Kinda reminds me of Sculpt4D when they abandoned the Amiga to go to the Mac.
> Same product as before (basically) just a new price (x10).
>
> MikeH, please tell us this is a type'doh.  Maybe $169.50?  OK maybe a <little>
> more.
>
> Impulse, who are your customers?  What is your market?  Reality check needed?

> Not many of <your> customers cannot afford 3D Studio, or other expensive
> packages.  Which is one reason we are <your> customers.  Of course cool
> functionality is another.  But do you offer 'leading edge' functionality worth

> thousands of dollars?  Are you prepared to compete with the Big Boys?
>
> There are many players in the 3D market, most trying for dominance.  I receive
d
> last week a offer for Ray Dream Designer 3.0 (Mac or Windows) for $99 smackers
.
> 90-day money back guarantee if not satisfied.  Sure it doesn't compare well to

> Imagine, but Ray Dream is probably snagging customers.  Volume is the key to
> dominance, not high price.
>
> Maybe I'm being touchy and the upgrade for <us> existing customers will be
> affordable.
>
> -Scott
> [e-mail]
>
>

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 00:55:07
Subject: Re: Optimise
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-20 04:28:37 EDT, you write:

>I use an Amiga as of now, but am considering buying a DX4/100 or P-75.
>The only reason I'd consider a DX4 is because it's about $200 cheaper and
>it'd be cheaper to upgrade to the Pentium after the P6 comes out.  I
>really would like to have a faster renderer right now, even if it means I
>can't multi-task...
>
>

Go for the pentium. The floating point is orders of magnitude faster than the
486/anything. And if you are carefull and purchase an upgradable machine you
may be able to plunk in a pentium 133, 150, or faster when they are
available.

Don't be fooled by the hype for the P6, now officially named the Pentium Pro
Processor. It will only provide dramatic performance increases on 32bit
software that is optimized for it's architecture. Even Intel says that
standard DOS/Win3.11/Win95 apps are likely to run faster on an equal clock
speed pentium. The Pentium Pro Processor is completely optimized for
operating systems like WinNT or Unix which take advantage of out of order
execution and branch prediction. Normal applications will stall the Pentium
Pro because the the chip tries to do an out of order execution and then ends
up idling until the other instructions finish first.

Falko

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 01:19:20
Subject: Re:Glossy brochure
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all!

I dont know what to say, I didnt realise that Impulse would make that brouchure

that fast. And I didnt know they used my pictures for it either, I think I gave

them permision to use them as they'd like, when I visited them in august....yeah

I did, so thats cool.
But could you, who have seen it, tell me a little about how the layout look
like, front page text, etc. And which one of my pictures they used. I'm curious.


Thanks in advance.

When it come to the price tag for the Windows version, I think they are doing
the right thing. Even if the "poor" people cant afford it, it will in the long
run bring in some hard cash. Look at Alias or Wavefront, they cost a lot of
money wich means they dont sell as many copy's as other cheaper packages, but
since they get in "big" buck's on each they dont have to. It all adds up doesnt

it. It will also give Impulse the developer strength to maybe hire more people
and take Imagine higher than we could hope for at much higer pace than they is
able to do right now. That is if they sell a handsome share of 4.0. And making a

Imagine 4.0 L/T will make more sense as well, since the price difference will
give the "poor" a choice to get the cheaper alternative.

Just some tought's

Later
Tom Renderbrandt Granberg

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 01:27:02
Subject: Using Pharlap to run Imagine
From:    Tom Ellard <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: Sharky <[e-mail]>

>For those of you who run the pharlap extender stuff to run Imagine under
>win 3.1, it works under Win95 too, with the added bonus of being able to
>use your Wacom Artpad too.  I'm using the latest wacom drivers from
>www.wacom.com.


I'd love to know more about using pharlap _and_ imagine.... I thought it was
a 3D Studio tool?

Tom.


Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 03:03:24
Subject: RE:I dont get it?
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi!


Adam wrote:
-----they all buy LightWave and one of the 3000 other windows
raytracers out there. And they cost between $50-$400 US not $1695 for
Imagine, jesus... oh well, they'll sell lots to commercial users when
they see that price they'll think "Gee, it must be good"-----

I dont get this, it is not you Adam, but I have this creeping feeling that the
price on the new Version pisses of a lot of imagine users. What do they use
their software for? If they only want "any" raytracer to play with, fine buy a
cheap one, but if you want something more it has to have a price that would
compare well in the market. Imagine are now not "just" a raytracer it is getting

darn good and I think the price for Win. version is fear.
Any comments..........well I would be suprised if there wasnt.

Later

Tom Renderbrandt



Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 03:08:56
Subject: Subcription Request
From:    Rodney McNeel <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subscribe

I tried the other address [e-mail] a week
ago and haven't received any mail as of yet. I'm thirsty for more
Imagine knowledge!

                      [e-mail]


Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 08:17:00
Subject: DCTV RGB PassThru
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where can I get one of these puppies?  (DCTV RGB Passthru, that is.)
I've got a _really old_ 1080 monitor, the one that came with my A1000
in 1985.  Yep, I've been using Turbo Silver since then, version 1.0,
I think, too.
I remember waiting 20 minutes to see a checkered plain and some
balls hovering over it, and thinking, "Wow.  It looks cool in 4096
colours, too!".  Now I can't get enough colours, speed, etc.  Addictive
little buggers, aren't they!

Comment on $1695 windows program:  I sure won't have the cash to buy
this!  They should learn from MicroSoft, cheap + volume = big buck$.
Shrink wrap the product, offer tech support for $50/year, then
I'd buy it.  And probably buy the tech support, too.

As some astute businessperson in Fortune Magazine said, "It costs
at least ten times as much to get new customers as it does to keep
old."  If Impulse is going after a new market, i.e. the heavily-pirated
windows market, then they will probably need a high price-tag in order
to recoup their losses.  However, at what price?  What percentage
of their customers will drop off due to the fact that a lot of us
are week-end renderers, and can't afford high-end prices?

Time will tell the tale.
\KenR

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 08:34:00
Subject: Wrong URL for bytebybyte
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tried to find the url for bytebybyte, as mentioned in someone's
message regarding Soft F/X.  Byte by Byte are the people that
wrote Sculpt 3D and Sculpt 4D for the Amiga, before they were
converted to the MAC platform (and left a lot of Amigoids in the
dust.)

Anyways, the URL is
  http://bytebybyte.com/  NOT http://www.bytebybyte.com!!!!!!

So, they have a non-standard URL name.  Sigh.  Someone said that the
Soft F/X interface is intuitive?  Their URL sure ain't.
\KenComplainingAndNotEnoughJavaR

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 09:25:27
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Glossy Brochure
From:    Ted Stethem <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Correction. Try:

    http://bytebybyte.com/

On Thu, 21 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>   If you have a PC with Windows, check out the fully useable demo of Soft
> F/X at http://www.bytebybyte.com. This is from the guys that used to do
> Sculpt4D. They have also gone cross-platform, from Mac to PC.
>
>      What's up with this URL? It doesn't seem to work...
>      -AC
>

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 09:45:47
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure (From MikeH)
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

MikeH wrote me to say:

"The unfortunate problem is this, while we have been selling Imagine for almost
nothing, others have made products that are less for more and are moving on.
Point in case is 3D studio which is not better than Imagine but has a much
larger price,  The price we have stated is for the Retail Pro Version of Imagine

for Windows, THIS IS IMPORTANT, present users will be able to upgrade for
$200.00.  This is the full pro version for windows, 95, NT and 3.1.  It has many

new features and a spanking new manual.  The new customer base will have to buy
the product for the retail price, what ever the street makes it.

We have never tried to abuse the trust of our user base and as you can see we
have no intention of doing so now.  So while there is no typo, YOU and others
who have supported us will not have to bear the brunt of the new technology.

When you consider Imagine and 3D studio for windows for a price of over $4000.00

Imagine looks very good.

Hope that sets your fears to rest.

Mike"

So that's the story.  $200 to upgrade which is very reasonable.  Thanks Mike for

the up-front facts!

-Scott
[e-mail]



Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 09:49:00
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    Adam Watkin <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> In a previous letter, Gary Beeton - SED Systems wrote:
> }
> }   After October 31, 3.0 to 4.0 will be $299US.
>
> Can we expect then that the upgrade from earlier versions of Imagine to
> 4.0 will escalate as well?
>
> Just lovely.
>
> So, what's the status of Amiga's Real-3d these days?  ;-)

      A very excellent looking windows version came out recently I
think. But as far as I could tell from the pictures it didn't conform to
any windows standards and generally was difficult to use, I doubt anyone
bought it, they all buy LightWave and one of the 3000 other windows
raytracers out there. And they cost between $50-$400 US not $1695 for
Imagine, jesus... oh well, they'll sell lots to commercial users when
they see that price they'll think "Gee, it must be good"

Adam.

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 09:53:07
Subject: Re[2]: Glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------






  If you have a PC with Windows, check out the fully useable demo of Soft
F/X at http://www.bytebybyte.com. This is from the guys that used to do
Sculpt4D. They have also gone cross-platform, from Mac to PC.

     What's up with this URL? It doesn't seem to work...
     -AC

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 10:26:00
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail] (Attila Montvai)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>Subject: Impulse, Imagine, President

Hi all,


Gary Beeton
[e-mail]

disclosed:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Features:

        It lists all(?) of the improvements from 3.0.  If you subtract
the ones that are already in 3.3 you are left with:
        - Metaballs editor with Special Effects
        - Light arrays... soft edge shadows
        - Motion Blur
        - Object Smoothing


Windows Version (3.1/95/NT):

        - Expect delivery for fall 95.
        - Retail price $1695US!
        - Cost to upgrade from other versions is TBD.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is a fragment from an other mail:


 I wouldn't hold my breath. I paid for features back in 1993 that was
supposed to be in 3.0, That I paid for agian in the 4.0 upgrade.

3.0 was supposed to be out in aug-sept and it shipped in march the
following year. Impulse sent out 2.9 to hold you over, I think it was
around december. Anyway I dont know if I can handle all the new bugs that
will be in 4.0 !


                                                 Render on
                                                 Phoenix

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I must remember you, some time ago I wrote this of Imagine 3.x and
3.0 - > 4.0 upgrade:


>1. This form of Imagine is at the end of its life. My guess is, that
>the 'constant upgrade policy' is a clever financial trick. It makes
>you to pay for the development of the new version giving away
>old 'gadets' as a superficial treatement of the package - in order to
>gain time.



The "President of Impulse" (as MH calls himself in mails)
argued vigorously this but privately, in a mail. (The
arguments never got to the IML.)

I think things above show who was right.

attila

[e-mail]
President of a Family with three impossible children.




Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 11:35:59
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>> >Windows Version (3.1/95/NT):
>> > - Retail price $1695US!

ulp!!  Best be one very glossy manual with that.

Greg Denby

ulp!!

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 12:04:05
Subject: Re:Glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Dave Jacob)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmmm...windoze version 169,500 US pennies. (but dont worry--i'llbet
we can all get on the constant upgrade program for only a hundred thousand pen
pennies :)

Actually, for those of you who think impulse is going to loose its
user base with the new prices, the harsh reality of the situation is
this--SO WHAT? Companies are not your pal--they figurewith the new
prices thay will be taking away a % of the 3DS market so will still
be pulling in the (pennies). The old user base can always go back to
povray....(I hear ver 3 is just around the corner).

I offer in evidence the fact that they will be rasing(acccording to the
origonal brochure poster) the price of upgrading from 3.0 to 4.0
to $30000 pennies after Oct. 31. , either forcing al the
holdouts to get on the ride or get kicked kicked out of the carnival.

Hmmmmmmm.... (heavily cogotating)

ps--you may be wondering why I converted all the prices to pennies.
Well, it just seems less devestating economically if I use
pennies instead of dollars in case I decide to upgrade, unless I
move on over to Truespace 2.... :-)


Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 12:50:10
Subject: Eurocheck
From:    [e-mail] (Milan Polle)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all,

does anybody know if you can pay for the constant upgrade program using
a eurocheck, or is a credit card the only way?

BTW: I am a media designer student and don't earn any money with Imagine
(no, not even with the textures, shareware sucks :)
I am glad the upgrade program is cheap, otherwise I couldn't afford
Imagine.

Let your Imagination run wild,

Greetings, Milan



Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 14:16:00
Subject: Kudos To Glossy Brochure!
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow!  That's the best ad that Impulse put out ever!
After looking at some images in CGW (Computer Graphics World) and
looking at the images in the article, all I can say is "wow".
For lighting, complexity, detail and texture, the Imagine images
compete easily with much higher-priced software running on the
PC or MAC.

Congrats to Mr. Grandberg as well for his outstanding images.  They
certainly look nice in glossy print.
\KenR

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 14:43:27
Subject: Imagine inertia
From:    [e-mail] (Milan Polle)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all,

I just discovered that imagine already has a built in
inertia effect! I was using the spline interpolation
with a starting speed of 5 and an ending speed of 0.
The speed of 5 turned out to be too fast, so the anim
extrapolated and returned to the target position.
A really neat cartoony inertia effect... wow!
(It's not a bug, it's a feature :)

L8er, Milan



Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 14:49:14
Subject: Banding and 4.0 must haves
From:    [e-mail] (Milan Polle)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi all,

first something about the banding with 24bit (sorry).
The banding effect is most visible with white objects, I rendered
a room and discovered very ugly banding rings on the walls, the
bands were quite large as the walls are flat.
Indeed the effect isn't noticable with video. But even worse, video
only uses 16 bits of colour! I've heard that a timebase corrector
digitises the video at 16 bits and I now the Abekas hardisc video
recorder (which is VERY widely used for recording animations) uses
only 16bits as well. It looks very ugly on a RGB monitor, but good
enough on video (even using PAL :).

Now, the 3.3 specs looked quite good, with rendering previews,
object smoothing, duplication of textures/brushes and all types
of mapping.

Here's what I think 4.0 SHOULD have (I might forget some stuff here).
(I am probably already too late...)

* Full spline forms editor (as promised)
* Visible spline editing for spline interpolation (keys etc.)
* Built in motion blur per object. (I think I read it does have
  this)
* Better looking lensflares (stars etc.)
* Better particles (with textures on them, and particle blur).
* Better particle effect (try making a spark or a fountain, no go)
* Multiple cameras
* Maybe multiple stages for one project (selectable) with batch
  rendering.
* Inverse kinematics in stage (procedurally, like bones)
* Real life camera settings and measurements
* More parameters for constrain (angle limits, maybe even spring
  like settings).
* Looping for state sequences (like a cycle object)
* No more object loading for every frame (and faster previews)
* Slider bar for realtime motion preview in stage (objects
  become boxes)
* Fix the glass bug (and support foreground anims (multiple with
  alpha))
* Fully improved action editor (interactive editing etc.) with
  control over children of groups, maybe more parameters for
  associate (delay in frames, only alignment or position)
  (also as promised)
* Visible keyframe paths (like lightwave)
* Much more effects (like wavefront) maybe be able to morph effect
  params
* Fractal subdivision (for landscapes and rocks)
* Better slicing (make my cleanupslice proggy obsolete)
* Instancing of objects (one object with clones with different
  positions/angles/sizes)
* I still would like to have my three cursors... (remember Sculpt)
* AREXX AREXX AREXX!!!
* Full jpg support
* If possible some kind of gravitation collision stuff.

Phew! I will shut up now,

Let your Imagination run wild,

Milan

([e-mail])



Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 14:59:29
Subject: Re: win95 and imagine???
From:    Sharky <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Fredster wrote:

> -- [ From: Fredster * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>
> > For those of you who run the pharlap extender stuff to run Imagine under
> win
> > 3.1, it works under Win95 too, with the added bonus of being able to use
> your
>
> Say what???
>
> Could you elaborate pretty please?

Essentially if you have pharlap's RUN386.EXE which usually comes with
as part of a larger package, the imagine executable can be split with a
small utility, separating the memory management.  Using the previously
mentioned program you can run imagine with virtual memory under windows.
The problem is that you need the larger package which runs around $500.
Not very cost effective if all you want to do is run Imagine under
windows.

After playing with it some more, there is another catch w/ win95. If you
switch over to Win95 environment, when you return to imagine, the video
mode is hosed and screen is unreadable.  You can still exit if you
remember where you left off by pressing the appropriate keys.  So, the
only real benefits now as I can see are not having to boot out to DOS,
and being able to use an artpad.  Not extremely compelling reasons to
pick up a developement package, just to use the memory management, unless
you already have it. Render times using this method are increased using
this method as well.

I'm probably gonna go back to the boot out method, since using the artpad
is cool, but the price in terms of performance isn't really worth it.
Guess we have to wait for WinImagine. I was hoping that Imagine 4.0 would
be able to run under Win95 (albeit without a windoze interface), but I
suppose economics of licensing another memory manager or incurring major
changes to memory management while developement of WinImagine is in
progress would not be very efficient use of Impulses developement budget.

Sorry if I got anyone too excited there. This is a big issue for all of
us on the PC side of Imagine.

Aloha,
      Sharky

[e-mail]/CIS#70614,2011 __   v  Home Page : http://aloha.com/~sharky
WebSurfer & Fun Guy,Funky    __/  \ >*< Home Server:http://www.websharx.com
WWW Page Designs,       ____/    ) | ^  Hawaii Related Links and Etcetera's,
Tech. Planning  /\_____/          } \   3D Modelling & Animation Art,Objects
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(_________ALOHA!_______)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 16:57:55
Subject: Re:Glossy brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Gary Beeton - SED Systems)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>I dont know what to say, I didnt realise that Impulse would make that brouchure

>that fast. And I didnt know they used my pictures for it either, I think I gave

>them permision to use them as they'd like, when I visited them in august....yea
h
>I did, so thats cool.
>But could you, who have seen it, tell me a little about how the layout look
>like, front page text, etc. And which one of my pictures they used. I'm curious
.

Tom,

The front page backgroung image is a forest of rendered "4.0"s, the
text says "Imagine Professional 3D Animation Rendering System" with
the Impulse logo at the bottom and "Special Imagine 4.0 Upgrade Offer"
at the top corner.  It is a six panel foldout with text on the top
half-ish and a montage of 16 images on the bottom half-ish.  The "4.0"
forest image is used as backdrop for both image and text (highly faded
under the text).  Very professional looking.  Of the images that are
credited, your name shows up on: "Padiaine" space gun-like thingy,
"T-Bag Graphics", "Eclipse" logo, "Sporten 2" logo (black background),
and "Sporten 2" logo (plasma "2").  Also credited are 2 images from S.
Gifford and 2 from Steve Blackmon.

Later...
Gary
[e-mail]

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 17:29:59
Subject: My Soccerball.. the promised jpeg.
From:    Soeren Birk Jacobsen <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's a jpeg I made of my soccerball hope you like it its uuencoded:


begin 644 pic2a.jpg
M_]C_X  02D9)1@ ! 0   0 !  #_VP!#  @&!@<&!0@'!P<)"0@*#!0-# L+
M#!D2$P\4'1H?'AT:'!P@)"XG("(L(QP<*#<I+# Q-#0T'R<Y/3@R/"XS-#+_
MVP!# 0D)"0P+#!@-#1@R(1PA,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R
M,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C+_P  1" $@ 7(# 2(  A$! Q$!_\0
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M'%'"@2)%11V48%9FN^&-&\2VAMM7TZ"Z0]"Z_,ON&ZBM4\?7M2C@4 ?/.O\
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M./TKFQCM0D<^+=J,CT_VZT8(^E1Y(]J ^ *^:/G23![TA4'[U-W=N:4-GC-
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MH[YVSU>REN5S:^3*W&Y0#^O%<Y0#@@CJ*8'H 521\^![BIKJS:UV-N#QN
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MY)'S>XH ;&A(Z88=:F/H<<4Y>F>E Y&<4K@-)P!BC<#U(I3Z=*:,GC@CU I
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M/?IS3=/U>WU&:\C0-"UK.UNXEP,LH!)&#TYJ7"2OIL+DEKIL7Q\O/LBAA
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M-N .1^/?/6NETO4)KXW.\6Q2*01J]O+YBL< G/ P1D5AMXU6$:XDUJ!+IO\
MJE#G]^-Q7/3C!&#UKJ56M)M)?T_Z_P SI52M)M)?T_Z_S*<_A6_N(+&0Z=:*
M8RRW5HERRK.#&$WY"_*1@]!WZYJY!X5F75=1O'L8"S6J1VK><25=8RASGKG=
MU.3Q5F_\5RV/A6RUC[*)7N%60P(Y^1",DYQV&/Q-79/$$PU_3]-M+>":.^MV
MF29Y", #/3!Z\4G.M;;O^&KZASUK;=_PU?4YBR\'ZS!!:)'%:PR164UO.3*S
M"XW [1P/E SR1S4B>%-=@L[F(V]K^_N+68*LP 7RP-PP% [?_KZUTV@^)5U/
MPZVM7XALH%=E/[S(4 [<DD#O5_7]5.BZ%<:HL N! @;9OV[N0.N#ZTG7K<_*
MTKWM\[@ZU7FY6M;_ (W*?AK3+S3QJC7*(OVF_DN(PC[OE;& >.O%8%UX0N'U
MB>]N+> PC43>M.A+.T.S!BVXR<D=*ZT:]I;3",ZA;APS(4W@'<HRP_#O0WB'
M1T, .IVO[]=T?[T?,"=H(]L\5E&I5C)R2W,XSJ*3:6YB^"=):QLY+A@2A)AM
M6>/8_P!G#LR[@0#G+'\A577_  O?:KJ\MU;106UXLL;6M_%*494 &X2+CYCP
M<?A71MXCT19&0ZG:AT!9LR#H#@G/?D$?6DDU_1TMTF;4[9$=V1&,@&67J/J*
M/:554<TM6'/44W-+5G%0^"-6;4I+JX\F1%>Z<;G!,OF+A0W'49YZ@8&*<W@6
M[CL-*5+2WD\I&2]MS<L@D8J%WA@#C[M==?Z[;VUA!=6\T4R3@LDF[Y HQEB1
MDGD@8')) JO!XE#6M^\J0>9:*Y#,YC1V4X*DL!M(; /4<]>N-?;UVKV_K^F:
M>VK-7M_7],YY_"&J'5GO(K.V!%_;3H_G?,$C7#C)&<L1GWSS6WXRTJ\UGPY<
M:9:1H9Y73EVV@ ,#GI[8J\GBC24C@6YU*T@G>-'>/S@=NX CGTYZU+_;VD"U
M:[&I6[0B0Q%Q(#\^,X'OCGZ5FZE7FC)K;8S<ZO,I-;'&WGA75IO[2>*WMXH[
MF:"6.V,I;8R$%GW$=P",#UIUQX1N;BV\0.MC MY>R-]G?S>%1MN0>.#\N?QK
MI=?\3V>D:*U_%-!=.T8EAB\['F+D#((!XY'^-6TU73Y+Q+1;R#[6X_U&_D'&
M2![XYQZ5?MJRBI6_I6+]K52O;^E8R_#>G7NEQ7,%[# 2TIE6XC'S2[LD[P!U
M!X]#7/'3;_5;OQ#=6EM^ZN[BU:+[4C1;@@^;@CL3W!&1WKN;O4[.RGBMY[V"
M&:0 JCN 3S@?AGBFQZOIL\Z11WUNTKNT:J) 2SKRRCW&1FLXU9IN=M_^'_0B
M-2:;E;?_ (?]#B+;PGJ\,5I'/;V=U!%)<(UN\Y"LDAX<$+P1ST'TQFK$?@_4
M8=8\W?"(Q>27"W <ES&R!1%C&<#'KC%;_B;Q'#H5@90(9K@;3Y)EVL5+;<\
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MVE^%-1LK[2IGU.WE.G0/ G[IOF5LXSSQ@8'X5OC5]*\S/]I66/\ KNO^-/\
M[:TM6.W4;+'_ %W7_&FZU5W7?R*]K5U_R,"Q\-:UIFA1Z3;ZI9")'=F=K7?O
MW9.""<8R<_A6[XATV76O#MQIT<ZQ-.H4R%"0.03QGVJ1=6TKJ=2L@/\ KNO^
M-$FMZ60%_M*S^OGK_C6;J5)24K:WOL2YU'+FMKOL8"^$]1A%J(M5A?[)<M/
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M=:H_VSI?_02L_P#O^O\ C2C6M+_Z"5G_ .!"?XT<K[!RR[%_ (QVI.@QP15
M:UI7_02L_P#O^O\ C3AK6DG_ )B5G_X$+_C1RR[!RR[%X#'(&*7K5'^V]*'_
M #$K+_P(7_&C^VM*Q_R$[+/_ %W7_&CEEV#EEV+W%&*I?VUI1_YB=G_W_7_&
MC^V=+_Z"=G_W_7_&CEEV#EEV+85A[T?3K53^V]*_Z"=G_P!_U_QH_MG2C_S$
M[/\ [_K_ (T<LNP<LNQ<^;T%'S>@JG_;.E?]!.R_[_K_ (T?VSI7_03LO^_Z
,_P"-'++L'++L?__9

end


Well I Hope nobody thinks this was uncalled for...




KURGAN


Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 19:58:47
Subject: New AutoPEG
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This just sent to me from J Corigliano, author of AutoPEG:
 <snip>
Well. thanks to your original mail, AutoPEG 2.0 is in the works :) It
will:
  - Only work with tasks the user specifies
  - It'll have a prefs program to select tasks to use (uses MUI)
  - Will have the NO DELETE option which will, hopefully, fix the problem
    with Imagine.
  - Require an 020+ (Had a problem with 68000)
<snip>
he said he expects it to be done in a week or two.
JN
PS, he said he'd like to check out some rendered images, so if you use AutoPEG
with Imagine, and are proud of the result, maybe send him a copy.
JN<again>

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 20:07:49
Subject: WinImagine price
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I think the price being punted about IS ridiculous, and is certainly

far beyond my means (of course, 3.0 is too, right now 8^( ) HOWEVER,
in defense of Impulse, what is the development cost involved in this step,
allowing as how the Windows version could/should be very user-friendly, on-line
hyper-help, and so on that is expected of all windows packages.
Here's a thought... Windows NT?  How about a rendering network?
JN

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 20:39:26
Subject: Re:glossy brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Dave Jacob)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I received the following reply from Mike H.:

(posted in full, comments after)

Dave

Let me know what you think of Truespace, I have version 2 and I still think that

Imagine 4.0 is much better, but of course I would think that.

You might post the following, if you wish.

      Some where along the line some users have decided that Impulse is a
non-profit organization or a charity of sorts.  The truth is however much
simpler, there are 8 team members that make Imagine, they want to do things like
eat, have a car, eat, drink beer and other libations, eat, sleep some where
other than the overpass on the highway, and last but not least, eat.

      For those now in college or other school, they will soon learn the lesson
that it takes money, dirt ole problem, money to pay for these things.

      People get to make a choice, they can buy what we make or not.  With this
concept we do not see any manner in which we can force anyone to do anything.
To that point, over the last six months, I have downloaded many names from the
IML, to my surprise over 40 percent of the people are not registered users, of
course this comes form the fact that they have a copy that they got from a guy
on the street corner for $2.00 and it did not have a warranty card.

      It has been said, that Imagine is one of the most stolen programs on the
Amiga computer, indeed, and now it seems that people feel it is fair to steal
what is now on the PC as well.  Mind you, I am not suggesting that IML users
have stolen the software, more that they have not had the opportunity to become
a registered user, how sad.  If they had taken the time and the 32 cents to let
us know that they were out there they too would have a direct contact with
Impulse and would know whats going on.

      Impulse will continue to offer a high quality product for the best price,
for those who want or need it, we will always do our best to make sure the price

is right.

      Lets see now, True space 2 7,950 pennies, I guess that sounds much better
than 2000 pennies for Imagine for windows.

      Keep On rendering, its fun.


      Mike Halvorson



Now, bitching about the price of something is as american as apple pie, and
corvettes. Haggling and kevetching is just part of life, and shouldn't be
taken too seriously--Mike H. and the others at Impulse certainly do
deserve to get a fair price for their product, which really is one of
the best programs of its type for its price. My main gripe was simply
about raising the upgrade price to Imagine 4.0 after Oct 31. I was
going to wait till Imagine for windows came out and then decide which one t
to get, but since the release date for Imagine for Windows will most
certainly be after the new year, I wont have the option of getting
Imagine 4.0 for $100. Thats all.

Now, the most disturbing aspect of Mike's reply is his estimate of
the number of pirates out there-- I read this with concern. I mean,
if Mike thinks 40% of us are unregistered users, well, can you blame
him for being, well, agitated? As with any program, some copies floating
out there are probably pirate, but I think this estimate is too high for
IML users. For the record, I am a registered user, and will probably
upgrade at least to 4.0, if not the windows version (I hate windows).
But, I decided to post this as aat least offering a reason for the
higher prices.

Cheers, Dave.

Date:    Thursday, 21 September 1995 21:28:00
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure (From MikeH)
From:    [e-mail] (tmarlar)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scott wrote to say;

MikeH wrote me to say:
>
>"The unfortunate problem is this, while we have been selling Imagine for almost

>nothing, others have made products that are less for more and are moving on.
>Point in case is 3D studio which is not better than Imagine but has a much
>larger price,  The price we have stated is for the Retail Pro Version of
Imagine
>for Windows, THIS IS IMPORTANT, present users will be able to upgrade for
>$200.00.  This is the full pro version for windows, 95, NT and 3.1.  It has
many
>new features and a spanking new manual.  The new customer base will have to buy

>the product for the retail price, what ever the street makes it.

I sure can't fault Impulse for wanting to make a profit on the YEARS of hard
work put into Imagine. I have been a user from Ver. 1 and used Sculpt3d
before that. The road to todays product has been long and bumpy but I have
enjoyed the ride. I look forward to the Pro version as I am switching to NT
for my operating system. Some of you have had bad words about MikeH and
Impulse. You may not like what he says but at least he can be reached to
talk to. Ever tried to talk to the CEO of Autodesk?

>We have never tried to abuse the trust of our user base and as you can see we
>have no intention of doing so now.  So while there is no typo, YOU and others
>who have supported us will not have to bear the brunt of the new technology.

This sure seems like a fair treatment to me. I just reserved a copy of 3D
Max (due out sometime next year) from my Autodesk dealer. Since it is a new
product and not an upgrade to 3DStudio it will cost me 5 times the imagine
upgrade price.

>When you consider Imagine and 3D studio for windows for a price of over
$4000.00
>Imagine looks very good.

Imagine is a good product and the price has been very good for a long time.
I sure will continue using it (if they don't put a dam dongle in the box).
It may not be all things to all people but then few things are. Thats why we
have so many programs to choose from and so many bills from buying them. If
MikeH sees this I just want to say thanks and keep up the good work.

Don't bother with your flames. At my age the fire just don't burn so bright
as it used too.
 Tom Marlar

>
>So that's the story.  $200 to upgrade which is very reasonable.  Thanks
Mike for
>the up-front facts!
>
>-Scott
>[e-mail]
>
>
>
Tom Marlar , email: [e-mail], [e-mail]

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 00:04:40
Subject: Re:Kudos glossy brochure
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ken!, and the rest of you guys that liked my pic's

Well, what can I say, I do my best and it seems to work when reading those mail

that refer to my pic's. So, thanks!
More is coming on a new web page I'm setting up, and it will be listed on
sharkys homepage as well. I also going to reveal some of my tips and tricks to
you there.

Later

Tom Renderbrandt Granberg

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 03:03:30
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Stephen Gifford)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>
>     A very excellent looking windows version came out recently I
>think. But as far as I could tell from the pictures it didn't conform to
>any windows standards and generally was difficult to use, I doubt anyone
>bought it, they all buy LightWave and one of the 3000 other windows
>raytracers out there. And they cost between $50-$400 US not $1695 for
>Imagine, jesus... oh well, they'll sell lots to commercial users when
>they see that price they'll think "Gee, it must be good"
>
>Adam.
>
>

I think it is important to realize that for Impulse to compete in the
Marketplace they have to produce a product that can compete on a
professional level.  This means that it is not a toy for people just to make
pretty pictures.  Imagine has the capability of making a lot of money for
people who use it.  Therefore I think that Impulse has every right to be
compensated well for a product that is so valuable to professionals who use
it.  Hopefully Impulse will continue to publish a l/t version for people who
want to learn or don't need the power of the Pro version.

As a professional artist myself, I know that if I sell my work at below
standard rates people automatically think that my work is not professional
or of less quality.  This is something that I think anyone who has ever
tried to freelance will agree with.  I do think that Autodesk is overpriced
but to be fair, I really can't afford it so I'm biased.  Even if I could
afford it right now I still wouldn't buy it.  I hate the interface.

What constitutes "Windows Standards"? Actually who cares about Windows
Standards.  If you want everything to look the same then buy a Mac. I think
conforming to the Microsoft Standards shoud only be taken so far.  I think
the people at Impulse have shown time after time that they listen to their
user base, and are not going to put out a Windows product that is not user
friendly.  Impulse has stated in the past that they do not desire dummy down
a product just so a program is to use for first timers.  Any product that
has as much complexity as Imagine will be to one degree or another difficult
to learn and use.  If you want to try a difficult interface try Real.

Stephen G.


Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 03:05:41
Subject: Re: win95 and imagine???
From:    Fredster <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- [ From: Fredster * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

> Essentially if you have pharlap's RUN386.EXE which usually comes with  as
part
> of a larger package, the imagine executable can be split with a  small
utility,
> separating the memory management.  Using the previously  mentioned program
you
> can run imagine with virtual memory under windows.  The problem is that
you
> need the larger package which runs around $500.  Not very cost effective
if all
> you want to do is run Imagine under  windows.

Ok, thanks for the info. You're right, not really worth the hassle but
intriuging nontheless!

>
> Sorry if I got anyone too excited there. This is a big issue for all of
us on
> the PC side of Imagine.
>

You betcha! Ok, all together now - WinImagine!!!!


--
--------------------------------------------
Fred Aderhold
[e-mail]
http://www.netrix.net/users/fredster

Daddy, what does formatting drive C mean?
--------------------------------------------

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 03:38:00
Subject: Glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> Windows Version (3.1/95/NT):->->         - Expect delivery for fall 95.->
     - Retail price $1695US!->         - Cost to upgrade from other versions is
TBD.Yipes! You sure that price isn't Pesos?   /------------------------------
        ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der Sommen                     / __  /_
_/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.                     /___/ / \  /  /  /
   / \  | [e-mail]     HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |
         "Blackouts make for nice breaks in the day"   \________________________
_____________________________________--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa B
arbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 04:22:00
Subject: WinImagine Price
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> When it come to the price tag for the Windows version, I think the=y a-> the
right thing. Even if the "poor" people cant afford it, it will= in-> run bring i
n some hard cash. Look at Alias or Wavefront, they cost= a-> money wich means th
ey dont sell as many copy's as other cheaper pa=cka-> since they get in "big" bu
ck's on each they dont have to.Is there a keyboard equivilent to making a disgus
ting noise with yourtongue, spit and lips?=2E..fooey then.   /------------------
------------           ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der Sommen
       / __  /__/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.                     /___/
 / \  /  /  /     / \  | [e-mail]     HAUS BBS (805
-683-1388)  |           "Blackouts make for nice breaks in the day"   \_________
____________________________________________________--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Hau
s BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 06:48:22
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure (From MikeH)
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 08:28 PM 21/9/95 EDT, you wrote:
>Scott wrote to say;
>
>MikeH wrote me to say:
>>
>>"The unfortunate problem is this, while we have been selling Imagine for
almost
>>nothing, others have made products that are less for more and are moving on.
>>Point in case is 3D studio which is not better than Imagine but has a much
>>larger price,  The price we have stated is for the Retail Pro Version of
>Imagine
>>for Windows, THIS IS IMPORTANT, present users will be able to upgrade for
>>$200.00.  This is the full pro version for windows, 95, NT and 3.1.  It has
>many
>>new features and a spanking new manual.  The new customer base will have
to buy
>>the product for the retail price, what ever the street makes it.

Thank you Impulse

We've had it good for a long time and got used to cheap software. The current
version is worth considerably more than they currently ask, and a new version
for windows, hopefully with a totally reworked interface, splines, etc
etc would be a killer program. I've always thought the core abilities of
Imagine much better than Lightwaves and from what I've seen equal to 3D
Studio 3,
which was out at the same time as 3.0.

Looks like it's time some of us took a reality check! Many have had the
benefits of
a high end commercial product for week-end renderer/hobbbiest work. Be grateful!

Meanwhile, back in the real world Impulse must up the ante (and their income) to

survive and be able to afford to keep Imagine up to date. $200 for us to upgrade

is very generous in anyones book.


Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 06:53:18
Subject: Re: quickrender rendering method selector
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: quickrender rendering method selector
>
>>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:44:15
>>To: Scott Krehbiel <[e-mail]>
>>From: Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>
>>Subject: Re: quickrender rendering method selector
>>
>>At 01:34 AM 18/9/95 -0400, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Bob Arnold wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about instead you pop into the Preferences and tell it to do a Trace
>>>> and specify a resolution instead?  I'll do a gnarly ugly object with
>>>> super lo-res and scanline until it looks "okay" then in prefs I'll tell
>>>> it Trace mode to see what the refractions will look like, then when I'm
>>>> really feeling pleased I'll pop out to the Project ed. and do a full
render.
>>
>>>My point is that I find hopping back and forth from the preferences
>>>editor to be a pain in the rear.  I know it's not that big a deal,
>>>but it seems to me that it'd eliminate some extra hassle if there
>>>were a gadget there in the quickrender requestor where you could
>>>specify the rendering method.
>>
>>How about say 4 buttons we could label, which give us 4 presets, either
>>preferences files or resolution and rendering mode options set in preferences,

>>on the little quickrender requester. That would suit me.
>>


Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 09:29:25
Subject: IM4.0 - please answer this.
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


     Could someone do me a favor and summarize these questions into a
     single mail message answer?

     1) What is IM 4.0? Dos? Windows? Both in same package? Two differnt
     packages?

     2) What is the upgrade price for (each) Imagine 4.0?

     3) Can I pay for it now? Does it benefit me to pay now or wait?

     4) Has there been any official release of information (sorry, Mike,
     your emails, while the authorative piece of information are not
     "official" in that nothing has been set in writing) from Imagine?

     5) Is anyone disturbed that thier names are being tracked as "pirate"
     users of Imagine? (FYI: I have 2 copies of Imagine, and I've told
     Impulse to DELETE my name on the SECOND copy of my address in thier
     database, for some reason that escapes me. Maybe I should have kept
     that second entry in thier database after all!)

     -AC

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 09:32:50
Subject: Home Page
From:    Jim Rix <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Please take a loot at the new home page of Jim Rix.

The address is:
      http://yakko.cs.wmich.edu/~jim

Jim Rix


Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 10:14:52
Subject: Re: glossy brochure
From:    John Grieggs <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Now, the most disturbing aspect of Mike's reply is his estimate of
> the number of pirates out there-- I read this with concern. I mean,
> if Mike thinks 40% of us are unregistered users, well, can you blame
> him for being, well, agitated? As with any program, some copies floating
> out there are probably pirate, but I think this estimate is too high for
> IML users. For the record, I am a registered user, and will probably
> upgrade at least to 4.0, if not the windows version (I hate windows).
> But, I decided to post this as aat least offering a reason for the
> higher prices.
>
Hmmm?  This caught my eye.  It would be terribly naive to assume that
unregistered user == pirate.  Didn't they publish Imagine 2.something
in a magazine?  If the typical user is anything like me, he or she won't
bother to send in a warranty card until absolutely required (needed for
support or update).  I thought Mike knew better than this...

For the record, I am a registered Imagine user on both platforms.  Most
of my other software is NOT registered, unless I have needed upgrades
or support.  That would be dozens of packages.  I happen to feel that
Microsloth products in particular are quite intrusive enough, and that
the drawbacks of sending in my personal info for their marketting
databases far outweigh the advantages.

> Cheers, Dave.
>
_john


Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 12:23:06
Subject: $200 fee for registered users
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Whew! Reading the info that current users will be able to get WinImagine
for another $200 was quite a relief.  Previous upgrade fees seemed to
be the amount already paid subtracted from the new commercial price,
less a little.  I had tallied my previous purchases up, and it looked
like $600 hundred was going to be the upgrade fee, by my guess.

Which means, by the way, that as a "non-professional" I've spent around
$1K to use Imagine, not to mention the hardware to run it on.  My
estimation is that there are quite a few folks out there that share
the same enthusiasm, so its good that apps remain as reasonable as
possible.

My 2 pennies in support of the "weekend" tracer...only when the trace takes
all week.

Greg Denby

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 15:19:10
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike H said,

>     People get to make a choice, they can buy what we make or not.
>With this concept we do not see any manner in which we can force
>anyone to do anything. To that point, over the last six months, I
>have downloaded many names from the IML, to my surprise over 40
>percent of the people are not registered users, of course this comes
>form the fact that they have a copy that they got from a guy on the
>street corner for $2.00 and it did not have a warranty card.

Before we all start shouting that 40% of the people on this list are
pirates, remember the fact that Imagine 2.0 has been included on
coverdisks of both Amiga Format and PC Format.

At a guess, this means that there are around 200,000 unregistered
IM2.0 users in the UK. All without documentation. Is it any surprise
that they start posting here wanting some help ?

Cheers,

Doug.

(Who bought Imagine 3.0 but it wasn't supplied with a registration
card)

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 15:40:39
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, William Bogan wrote:

> This is the third time today I have received your message
> and the second time I have responded. Maybe you are
> not receiving return mail .... but some of us are receiving
> your outgoing stuff.
>
> READ YOU LOUD AND CLEAR......
>
> -spidey
>
>
> > From [e-mail] Thu Sep 21 15:37 PDT 1995
> > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:41:39 +0200 (MET DST)
> > From: Soeren Birk Jacobsen <[e-mail]>
> > To: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
>

OOPS SORRY BUT I'VE SEND A FEW MESSAGAGES WITH USABLE CONTENTS THAT ARE
JUST LOST, THINK THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH SOMETHING CALLED 'LOTUS MAIL'
OR SOMETHING, I HAVE RECIEVED A 'NOT DELIVERED' REPLY FROM THEM DURING
THE NIGHT.

BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

KURGAN

BY THE WAY DID ANYBODY RECIEVE MY SOCCERBALL JPEG, THAT I SEND UUENCODED
TO THE LIST?

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 16:21:04
Subject: Bugs Impulse doesn't care about. (was Re: banding and 4.0 must
From:    Mikael Ostergren <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUBJECT too long. Original SUBJECT is 'Bugs Impulse doesn't care about. (was Re:
 banding and 4.0 must haves)'

----------------------  Original Message Follows  ----------------------

21 Sep 95 skrev\ Milan Polle detta:
MP> Sep 95 15:49:14 +0200 From: [e-mail] (Milan Polle)
 MP> To: [e-mail]


 MP> Hi all,

 MP> Here's what I think 4.0 SHOULD have (I might forget some stuff here). (I
 MP> am probably already too late...)

:-)

[...]

 MP> * Fix the glass bug (and support foreground anims (multiple with
 MP>   alpha))

While they are doing so, maybe they could look at the repeat-texture bug too?
And maybe could throw in some 040 optimized math-textures too... :-=)

[...]

 MP> Phew! I will shut up now,

No, don't! Fax or call this thing to Impulse. Isn't that the only way to get
trough to them? Is there a better way?


/micce


     .--
     | FidoNet: 2:201/411.36    Internet: [e-mail] |
     | CompuServe: 100303,2117  Internet: [e-mail] (work)   |
                                                 Amiga 4000/040 --'

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 16:38:03
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

$200 for the Windows upgrade!!!  Wow!  I'll probably write the check as
soon as the offer comes!

Steve (glad to be on the constant upgrade program)

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 17:51:49
Subject: WinImagine
From:    [e-mail] (The Prophet)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will the Windows version of Imagine be slower than the DOS
version?  I was wondering about any speed penalties that
Windows might impose.

Jaeson K.
 ____            ____            _           _
( |  \          ( /  \          ( )       _ / )
 )|   )_   __    /   /_   _  __  /   __  ( X_)
( |  /~ \ /\_)  /---~/ ) / )/  )/~\ /\_)  / _
 )ll/  l/ \__ (/   (/   (_//__//  / \__  (___)
(____________)        (___/        (___)

Jaeson Koszarsky                  Amiga 3000+
----------------                  -----------
[e-mail]              68040/30Mhz
[e-mail]                24Megs-1GIG
[e-mail]            OS3.1

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 18:14:55
Subject: No sniveling
From:    [e-mail] (DThompson)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even if I didn't already own Imagine, I would say that paying $1695 for a
program that will make me over 30k a year is not a bad price. Face it,
Imagine is a tool, not a toy. It's great that there are amatuers out there
using the product, because some day they will become proffessionals and add
to the ranks, but the 1695 program is aimed at people who make their living
off of the product. I get people complaining about costs to me all the time,
thinking that graphics and animation are fun, anyone can do them, and it
shouldn't cost so much money, so I know how M H feels. Part of the problem
is that the advertising of most 3d products is aimed at making 3d look like
any idiot off the street can buy the program and start making pretty
pictures. We all know this is bullshit, because anyone who has had a paying
job knows how hard it really is to please a client. I think the people who
are complaining are the people who think that this is easy, who haven't had
a paying job, and are just whiners who think Impulse owes THEM something. If
you made money off of Imagine, you know that all Impulse owes you is
continued support of the product and that's it.

If $1695 get's you better support, more bells and whistles, plug ins, faster
upgrades, happy clients, and more money, then shut up and write the check or
buy Lightwave! (I'm not serious, I would never insist on anyone buying
Lightwave. Animation Master, on the other hand, is a different story. Talk
about a good compliment to Imagine's features). Hint, Hint.

Dave Thompson

CTVA


Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 18:49:26
Subject: Re:Glossy Brochure
From:    Brad Molsen <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 21 Sep 1995, Mike Halvorson wrote:


> To that point, over the last six months, I have downloaded many names from the

> IML, to my surprise over 40 percent of the people are not registered users,
>
>
>     Mike Halvorson

To all, This SUCKS!! and I'm not referring to Mike monitoring the list and
comimng up with this stat. It takes alot of stones (let alone stupidity) to
have one's name on the list as a inquirer or contributor knowing that you
have a hot copy. It's too bad Dave W. doesn't have a registered users
list to compare to IML's list so he could bump these people to
Lurkerville where they could hope to pick up tidbits of info they need to
better understand the tool and be left to pick thru the bones of the
feast that we all enjoy by the open exchange afforded us by having
registered.
                              nuff said,
                                      Brad

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 20:20:06
Subject: Re: William Bogen's almost flaming me.
From:    [e-mail] (Gary Beeton - SED Systems)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>OOPS SORRY BUT I'VE SEND A FEW MESSAGAGES WITH USABLE CONTENTS THAT ARE
>JUST LOST, THINK THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH SOMETHING CALLED 'LOTUS MAIL'
>OR SOMETHING, I HAVE RECIEVED A 'NOT DELIVERED' REPLY FROM THEM DURING
>THE NIGHT.

I think the "Lotus Mail" thing is just some system telling us that one
or more IML subscriber on that system no longer exist.  It is not a
problem with this list AFAIK.

>BY THE WAY DID ANYBODY RECIEVE MY SOCCERBALL JPEG, THAT I SEND UUENCODED
>TO THE LIST?

I got the UUEncode but the decode failed.  I don't know if the problem
is at my end or yours.

Gary
[e-mail]

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 20:38:36
Subject: Re: IM4.0 - please answer this.
From:    [e-mail] (Gary Beeton - SED Systems)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>     Could someone do me a favor and summarize these questions into a
>     single mail message answer?
> ...

AC,

You seem to have missed my original post which started this thread and
answers most of your questions, so here it is again.

Gary
[e-mail]



_________Previous Posting Follows__________________________________________
From: GEORGE::"[e-mail]" 20-SEP-1995 10:36:01.18

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 20:55:25
Subject: Imagine Registration
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have Imagine 2.0 Amiga, unregistered for a (possibly) unique reason:
I purchased the original disks, along with those for PageStream 2.2,
Lattice C 5.02, and several other fairly expensive packages, from an
associate (also A customer of my security business)for about $150, due to the fa
ct that his apartment burned up, with original
disks and other important/valuable items in a fire safe.  No docs, no packages,
no Amiga, no use to him.
Joel NewKirk

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 22:00:24
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    Doug Smith <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Edward,

        You wrote this about Re: Glossy Brochure:
ly.
:
: So, what's the status of Amiga's Real-3d these days?  ;-)
:
:  -Ed

It seems that V3.0 has just been released.

I contacted the UK distributers today to ask for details, apparantly an upgrade
is in the works already, and following that a demo version will be released.

Full list price is 400UKP, but they do an upgrade from Imagine for 300UKP.

They are sending me a brochure, if there is any interest I can summarise here.

The features that interest me are,

Compliance with Amiga programming guidelines.
Graphics card support.
Spline based modeller.
Glows.
Built in programming language


There was a review in Amiga Format, and some of the sample images were of
astounding quality.

The general consensus of the review was that it "has a long learnig curve",
is not very fast, but "Has twice the power of lightwave for half the price"

Hisoft (in the UK) are currently pushing Maxon4D, the advert says it's 200UKP.
The Images in the advert are not very complex, but there is a free demo disk
available, so you can at least try it out.



Cheers,

Doug.

--
Amiga 4000/40 2+12 2M CV64 - Not better, just different

Life's just not fair - this is a good thing.


Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 23:07:18
Subject: Confused about price
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm a new Imagine 3.0 user.  I've sent in my registration card.  As 4.0 and
Winimagine draws near I'm confused about the price sceme.  If I'm on the
constant upgrade program will I be upgraded through 4.0?  Or will I have to
pay the upgrade price like everyone else?  When Winimagine comes out if I
have 4.0 will I have to upgrade again?  How much will that be?  When is 4.0
due out?  When is Winimagine due?  Please could someone explain this pricing
to us who are out of the loop?  Also what is this glossy brochure I keep
hearing about?  Please help this confused beginner about price in Tenn.
 Thanks in advance and God bless.

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 23:20:33
Subject: Re: Kudos To Glossy Brochure!
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 21 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> Wow!  That's the best ad that Impulse put out ever!
> After looking at some images in CGW (Computer Graphics World) and
> looking at the images in the article, all I can say is "wow".
> For lighting, complexity, detail and texture, the Imagine images
> compete easily with much higher-priced software running on the
> PC or MAC.
>

How does one go about procuring one of these brochures?

> \KenR
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 23:21:28
Subject: Good water
From:    Mike McCool <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I've just finished my seventh attempt at a water anim, and it's
just not happening, so it's time to beg for help.

I'm looking for a sort of random waviness over time, like the surface of a
swimming pool.

I'm using Essence's caustics and random ripple texture, and the stills
are absolutely delicious looking.  It's just when I try morphing between
different parameters of these textures over time, to achieve a moving
water look, it comes out very unrealistic.

(I've only got 3.0, so don't make my mouth water any worse by telling me
how mouthwatering the new water texture is in 3.whatever).

Thanks, y'all.

Date:    Friday, 22 September 1995 23:32:24
Subject: Re: Glossy Brochure
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, Stephen Gifford wrote:

>
> What constitutes "Windows Standards"? Actually who cares about Windows
> Standards.  If you want everything to look the same then buy a Mac. I think
> conforming to the Microsoft Standards shoud only be taken so far.  I think

Hey, just another random thought - d'ya think that Impulse, sincethey are
now designing a version that follows interface guidelines for windoze,
will make a version that follows Intuition guidelines for the Amiga
platform? It'd be pretty cool if they did! Any thoughts?

>
> Stephen G.
>
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 00:36:00
Subject: Re: Shading bands
From:    Marty K <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Mike Vandersommen wrote:

> Simple. View the image in 16million (24 bit) color mode. As good as
> 16-bit color is, you won't get rid of the dithering bands unless you
> have a true 24-bit display.
>
Or an AGA Amiga. HAM8 with just a little dithering: no visible bands!
I have seen real 24-bit displays and I have seen HAM8 in hires. After
that I really have no need for a 24-bit display.

Marty

__    __  __  _ __  ___  _____  __ __ _  __    __    "Nothing is real"
'=\/T/='  I|\/| //\ I| )/ I| \\_/  I|/   '=\T\/='    mk-tel.sik.ppoy.fi
  /^^   * I|  |//~~\I|~\  I|  I|   I|\  *   ^^\        Pori, FINLAND
          ~~  ~~~  ~~~  ~ ~~  ~~   ~~ ~          http://www.ppoy.fi/~mk-tel


Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 00:51:23
Subject: Imagine a CyberGraphs screen
From:    [e-mail] (Soren Wind)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


 [ 21 Sep 95 ] [ Attila Montvai -> me ]

 AM> Features:
 AM>         It lists all(?) of the improvements from 3.0.  If you subtract the
ones that are already in 3.3 you are left with:
 AM>         - Metaballs editor with Special Effects
 AM>         - Light arrays... soft edge shadows
 AM>         - Motion Blur
 AM>         - Object Smoothing

It is a damn shame.... if another 6 month's passby without Imagine start to
support my Picasso / CyberGraphX card,
i will move all my 3d activities to Macintosh instead...

It is a shame, but i can't continue tracing i PAL:HIRES-LACE....
Please Impulse, do the magic things, you used to be so good at...
  _____ __ _
 |
 | Soren IZI Wind / [e-mail]
 |    2:235/314.95   / 2:238/43.25
 |   Visual-ImPACT / Alien WorkShop
 |   RayTRACE / stud.comp.gfx.trace
 | sysop at : Our World [phone]  |
 | a2k/o3o/882/12MB/33Mhz/835MB HD    |
 | Picasso2 CyberGFX / UM-15"NLD      |
 | Macintosh Quadra 84oAV 24mb  (\o/) |
 | Sony 15"SF 5ooMB HD & CD-Rom (/|\) |
                        _ __ _________|


-- Via Xenolink 1.97, XenolinkUUCP 1.1

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 01:13:05
Subject: Another wishlist
From:    Marty K <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suggestions for Imagine 4.0 (or 4.1)

Bug fixes:
1. Remove the borders from repeating altitude maps
2. Fix the Lock state bug with altitude maps
3. The bad chunk size error when loading an object that was OK when saving
4. Overlapping fog object bug

Improvements
1. Enable the use of one vertex as a bones subgroup
   (to work like magnetism)
2. Load cloned object only once to save memory
3. Use altitude mapping (and bump textures) to change the profile also
4. Define specularity, hardness and roughness for individual faces
5. Restrict magnetism effective range for points, that are _connected_ to the
   dragged point(s) or define the range of influence manually
6. Window update in editors: you all know what this means
7. Non-interlaced editors for PAL-monitors
8. Show zone borders in perspective window
9. Enable transport of objects straight from one editor to another
10. Do not load objets for every frame in stage editor

Additions
1. Fractal trees
2. Fractal landscapes
3. Shadow mapping (+soft shadows)
4. Glows and halos around light sources - without using textures
5  "Unfracture", cut down the resolution of a mesh for distant objects
6. Alphatextures as standard
7. Painting a brushmap in the detail editor straigh on the object
   (this shouldn't be impossible, and it would be really cool)
8. Metaballs
9. Collision detection
10. Motion blur

And of course most of the other suggestions that are seen in the IML


__    __  __  _ __  ___  _____  __ __ _  __    __    "Nothing is real"
'=\/T/='  I|\/| //\ I| )/ I| \\_/  I|/   '=\T\/='    mk-tel.sik.ppoy.fi
  /^^   * I|  |//~~\I|~\  I|  I|   I|\  *   ^^\        Pori, FINLAND
          ~~  ~~~  ~~~  ~ ~~  ~~   ~~ ~          http://www.ppoy.fi/~mk-tel


Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 01:58:00
Subject: Re: Confused of Tenn
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>I'm a new Imagine 3.0 user.  I've sent in my registration card.  As 4.0
and
>Winimagine draws near I'm confused about the price sceme.  If I'm on the
>constant upgrade program will I be upgraded through 4.0?  Or will I have
to
>pay the upgrade price like everyone else?

If you have paid the extra $100 to join the constant upgrade program then
you will receive 4.0.

If you then want WinImagine when it is released, it will cost you another
$200.

Imagine 4.0 is due out "real soon now".

Joe


Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 02:11:23
Subject: DXF (not about winImagine)
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone explain why If I save an object as DXF, then load the DXF back in,
the object is faceted?  I tried making all edges smooth, but that didn't
help.

The only reason I tried this is a friend with TrueSpace (1.0) loaded a DXF I
created and saw the same result.

Alan.

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 02:34:03
Subject: Re: <none>
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Doug, on Sep 22 you wrote:

> Mike H said,
>
> >   People get to make a choice, they can buy what we make or not.
> >With this concept we do not see any manner in which we can force
> >anyone to do anything. To that point, over the last six months, I
> >have downloaded many names from the IML, to my surprise over 40
> >percent of the people are not registered users, of course this comes
> >form the fact that they have a copy that they got from a guy on the
> >street corner for $2.00 and it did not have a warranty card.

> (Who bought Imagine 3.0 but it wasn't supplied with a registration
> card)

I bought Imagine 2.0 and 3.0 here in Australia and neither had registration
cards. I've also sent snail mail to Impulse about upgrades but never
received a response. I hope I have better luck with cross-upgrading when I
switch to a PC.

-- Bob

  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :


Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 03:55:53
Subject: Confused about price
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know if my first try made it but here goes again.  I'm a new Imagine
3.0 user.  I've sent in my registration card.  As 4.0 and
Winimagine draws near I'm confused about the price sceme.  If I'm on the
constant upgrade program will I be upgraded through 4.0?  Or will I have to
pay the upgrade price like everyone else?  When Winimagine comes out if I
have 4.0 will I have to upgrade again?  How much will that be?  When is 4.0
due out?  When is Winimagine due?  Please could someone explain this
pricing to us who are out of the loop?  Also what is this glossy brochure I
keep hearing about?  Please help this confused beginner about price in
Tenn.
 Thanks in advance and God bless.





Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 04:25:34
Subject: Re: DXF (not about winImagine)
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Can anyone explain why If I save an object as DXF, then >load the DXF back
in,
>the object is faceted?  I tried making all edges smooth, >but that didn't
>help.

>The only reason I tried this is a friend with TrueSpace >(1.0) loaded a DXF I
>created and saw the same result.

>Alan.

Make sure to turn on the phong shading in the attributes menu <F7>



Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 04:43:00
Subject: WinImagine Upgrade
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> From: [e-mail]-> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:00:14 -0
700->-> $200 for the Windows upgrade!!!  Wow!  I'll probably write the che=ck->
soon as the offer comes!For those Amiga 3.0 users, it'll be $400.$100 for 4.0 Am
iga$100 for 4.0 PC$200 for WinImagineApparently, you can't skip the 4.0PC to get
 to WinImagine.--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - (805) 683
-1388

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 06:40:09
Subject: The small utility that fixes Imagine.
From:    Tom Ellard <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: Sharky <[e-mail]>

>Essentially if you have pharlap's RUN386.EXE which usually comes with
>as part of a larger package, the imagine executable can be split with a
>small utility, separating the memory management.

Daaaaaa, I have RUN386.EXE and wish to do all these things (and get into a
big mess perhaps) but maybe JUST MAYBE not have to have Imagine as the one
program I have to reboot to use.

If you would be so kind as to describe the origin of the "small utility"? I
have daydreamed of such a thing.

Tom Ellard. Severed Heads.
The Chocolate Pizza of Music.


Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 09:16:00
Subject: How to get a glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roger asked how to get a glossy brochure....

The asnwer is simple!  Call Impulse at 1-800-328-0184 (USA and Canada)
or at 612-425-0557 for International calls.  I am sure that they
will be happy to send you one.

I think that all registered users must have received one in the mail.
\KenR

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 09:59:39
Subject: Re: DXF (not about winImagine)
From:    Jim Rix <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Fri, 22 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> Can anyone explain why If I save an object as DXF, then load the DXF back in,
> the object is faceted?  I tried making all edges smooth, but that didn't
> help.
>
> The only reason I tried this is a friend with TrueSpace (1.0) loaded a DXF I
> created and saw the same result.
>
> Alan.
>
I believe that DXF does not save information about the edge attributes of
an object.  Therefore it is necessary to select all edges in a DXF
objects and make then smooth edges.

Jim Rix

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 10:01:38
Subject: Re: good water
From:    Jim Rix <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Mike McCool wrote:

> Well, I've just finished my seventh attempt at a water anim, and it's
> just not happening, so it's time to beg for help.
>
> I'm looking for a sort of random waviness over time, like the surface of a
> swimming pool.
>
> I'm using Essence's caustics and random ripple texture, and the stills
> are absolutely delicious looking.  It's just when I try morphing between
> different parameters of these textures over time, to achieve a moving
> water look, it comes out very unrealistic.
>
> (I've only got 3.0, so don't make my mouth water any worse by telling me
> how mouthwatering the new water texture is in 3.whatever).
>
> Thanks, y'all.
>
You need to use the Essence texture, Waves.  This works great

Jim Rix

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 12:51:09
Subject: Intuition Interface
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roger Straub wonders:
>will (Impulse)make a version that follows Intuition guidelines for the
>Amiga...

I'd guess that much of the code that created the interface, such as the
beloved file requestors, has now been seperated from the tracing routines.
So if Impulse has the man-hours, they probably are in a better position
to rework the Amiga interface.  I suppose the real problem, from their
standpoint, is trying to figure how much profit there might be in it.
Could or would they spend several months doing the re=work when most of
their Amiga users have not been upgrading?

Perhaps the Amigan's should start a letter writing campaign with something
like "Intuition interface, gfx card support, we will buy!" as the slogan.

Greg Denby

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 15:02:24
Subject: Re: How to get a glossy Brochure
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Sat, 23 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> Roger asked how to get a glossy brochure....
>
> The asnwer is simple!  Call Impulse at 1-800-328-0184 (USA and Canada)
> or at 612-425-0557 for International calls.  I am sure that they
> will be happy to send you one.
>
> I think that all registered users must have received one in the mail.

Yeah, Mike Halvorsen mailed me and said that if I had registered, I
should be getting one. Well, now I have something to watch the mailbox for...

> \KenR
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 18:34:00
Subject: Re: Amiga & Imagine
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>Hey, just another random thought - d'ya think that Impulse, sincethey
are
>now designing a version that follows interface guidelines for windoze,
>will make a version that follows Intuition guidelines for the Amiga
>platform? It'd be pretty cool if they did! Any thoughts?

Well I don't want to worry you, but here is what the brochure says about
future Amiga versions...

"Future Amiga version of Imagine will continue as long as users continue
to show interest through upgrades or participation in the "Constant
Upgrade program". To date, upgrades to Imagine are 3 to 1 ratio of PC
users to Amiga Users. We began this journey of 3D software on the Amiga
and wish to continue our support, but that depends on you the Amiga user.
If you want us to continue, then the time has come to stand up and be
counted. Call us today to get your copy of Imagine 4.0 for the Amiga"

I think this is pretty clear. If Amiga users *don't* support Impulse by
upgrading to v4.0, then Impulse won't be supporting the Amiga in the
future.

Joe


Date:    Saturday, 23 September 1995 18:34:00
Subject: Re: Glossy brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Joe Beard)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>How does one go about procuring one of these brochures?

Well I got mine today, here in England. So I presume that all registered
users will eventually get one, like the newsletters.

Joe


Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 01:55:55
Subject: Re: Intuition Interface
From:    [e-mail] (Michael Rivers)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

GD> Roger Straub wonders:GD> >will (Impulse)make a version that follows Intuitio
n guidelines f=or theGD> >Amiga...GD> I'd guess that much of the code that creat
ed the interface, such =as theGD> beloved file requestors, has now been seperate
d from the tracingGD> routines.If the code was written using any kind of common
sense, it would have= beena snap to replace the file reqs many versions ago.  I
suspect that th=e filereqs won't be replaced in the Amiga version because Impuls
e is tring =to stay=20compatible with old amigas with 68000 processors 1 meg o r
am an AOS1.=3.which is a total crock, since: the textures no longer without an F
PU,Imagine will be very useless with only 4 megs o ram, it wont even runin 1 meg
 any more.  And all of people who are using other up to dateAmiga software, have
 to be using atleast AOS2.04.GD> So if Impulse has the man-hours, they probably
are in a better po=sitionGD> to rework the Amiga interface.  I suppose the real
problem, from =theirGD> standpoint, is trying to figure how much profit there might be in= it.GD> Could or would they spend several months doing
 the re=3Dwork when= most ofGD> their Amiga users have not been upgrading?99% of
 the Amiga users here have stated that they want a updated UIfor Imagine.  Which
 is probably why most of us have not been upgradin=g.Ever since Impulse went cro
ss platform, anything that would have help=edthe Aimga version, hasn't been impl
emented.  No Asl, Gadtools, And itstill assumes way to much about the Amiga arch
itecture, (which is whyImagine doesn't work worth a flip on gfx cards, or even o
n the nativechipset if the screen is opened with some of the new features in WB3
.=1)GD> Greg Denby=B7---------------------------------------------------------=B
7| Commodore failure. Press left mouse button to continue  ||       Error:  $010
0000C       Task : $416C6920          |=B7--------------------------------------
-------------------=B7    Mike Rivers (aka) Vermin --  [e-mail]
    roadkill on the information superhighway          A4000/040 25mhz  18megs  1,451meg hd=2E.. Windows95, Start me up...  ...You make a grown m
an cry.

Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 06:08:48
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 10:41 AM 22/9/95 +0000, you wrote:
>Mike H said,
>>have downloaded many names from the IML, to my surprise over 40
>>percent of the people are not registered users, of course this comes
>>form the fact that they have a copy that they got from a guy on the
>>street corner for $2.00 and it did not have a warranty card.
>
>Before we all start shouting that 40% of the people on this list are
>pirates, remember the fact that Imagine 2.0 has been included on
>coverdisks of both Amiga Format and PC Format.

Would people please note it was NOT Mike H that said these people are
pirates - he just noted how many unregistered users there are here.

Also, to those who point out 2.0 being on the mag cover - are anything
like 40% of the queries here to do with 2.0?? Relatively few, I would
say.


Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 06:17:01
Subject: Re: Intuition Interface
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At , you wrote:
>GD> Roger Straub wonders:
>GD> >will (Impulse)make a version that follows Intuition guidelines for the
>GD> >Amiga...
>
>GD> I'd guess that much of the code that created the interface, such as the
>GD> beloved file requestors, has now been seperated from the tracing
>GD> routines.
>
>If the code was written using any kind of common sense, it would have been
>a snap to replace the file reqs many versions ago.  I suspect that the file
>reqs won't be replaced in the Amiga version because Impulse is tring to stay
>compatible with old amigas with 68000 processors 1 meg o ram an AOS1.3.
>which is a total crock, since: the textures no longer without an FPU,
>Imagine will be very useless with only 4 megs o ram, it wont even run
>in 1 meg any more.  And all of people who are using other up to date
>Amiga software, have to be using atleast AOS2.04.
>

Then surely by your own logic thats not the reason - they're not stupid!
They would have some idea who their user base is. Sheesh


Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 10:14:10
Subject: Re: Intuition Interface
From:    Ted Stethem <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mike,

RIGHT ON!!! and very well articulated. If Impulse doesn't understand=20
these things after LURKING on the list for several YEARS, then I predict=20
the Windhoze version will just be the same ol' interface and screen=20
sitting on top of a Windross Windoze. I am sure that will impress the=20
PeeCee-types enormously.


On Sun, 24 Sep 1995, Michael Rivers wrote:

> GD> Roger Straub wonders:
> GD> >will (Impulse)make a version that follows Intuition guidelines for t=
he
> GD> >Amiga...
>=20
> GD> I'd guess that much of the code that created the interface, such as t=
he
> GD> beloved file requestors, has now been seperated from the tracing
> GD> routines.
>=20
> If the code was written using any kind of common sense, it would have bee=
n
> a snap to replace the file reqs many versions ago.  I suspect that the fi=
le
> reqs won't be replaced in the Amiga version because Impulse is tring to s=
tay=20
> compatible with old amigas with 68000 processors 1 meg o ram an AOS1.3.
> which is a total crock, since: the textures no longer without an FPU,
> Imagine will be very useless with only 4 megs o ram, it wont even run
> in 1 meg any more.  And all of people who are using other up to date
> Amiga software, have to be using atleast AOS2.04.
>=20
> GD> So if Impulse has the man-hours, they probably are in a better positi=
on
> GD> to rework the Amiga interface.  I suppose the real problem, from thei=
r
> GD> standpoint, is trying to figure how much profit there might be in it.
> GD> Could or would they spend several months doing the re=3Dwork when mos=
t of
> GD> their Amiga users have not been upgrading?
>=20
> 99% of the Amiga users here have stated that they want a updated UI
> for Imagine.  Which is probably why most of us have not been upgrading.
> Ever since Impulse went cross platform, anything that would have helped
> the Aimga version, hasn't been implemented.  No Asl, Gadtools, And it
> still assumes way to much about the Amiga architecture, (which is why
> Imagine doesn't work worth a flip on gfx cards, or even on the native
> chipset if the screen is opened with some of the new features in WB3.1)
>=20
> GD> Greg Denby
>=20
> =B7---------------------------------------------------------=B7
> | Commodore failure. Press left mouse button to continue  |
> |       Error:  $0100000C       Task : $416C6920          |
> =B7---------------------------------------------------------=B7
>     Mike Rivers (aka) Vermin --  [e-mail]
>         roadkill on the information superhighway
>           A4000/040 25mhz  18megs  1,451meg hd
>=20
> ... Windows95, Start me up...  ...You make a grown man cry.
>=20
>=20

Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 10:27:28
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Ted Stethem <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Don't forget that ImaginePC 2.0 was also included in that book, can't
remember the name, which quite a few people bought. Also, it is difficult
to say which messages are referring to a specific version of Imagine so
it would be difficult or impossible to determine if the person only had 2.0.
  The thing that bothers me is the implied message, with a buried threat,
that it is a MANDATED REQUIREMENT that you must be a registered owner of
Imagine to lurk, and even participate on this mailing list. Mailing lists
exist for the interchange of information (facts, opinions, beliefs, etc)
for anybody that cares to participate or just has an interest in a
particular subject.  Maybe some of those people have heard of this
program and are just trying to find out more before they decide to become
a customer. Gee, POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS! What an idea!
  We don't need anymore NET-NAZI's practicing their Gestapo law
enforcement over Cyber-Space. Only the list moderator has the power of
life and death on this list. Thanks Dave Wickard for everything!

On Sun, 24 Sep 1995, Bill Boyce wrote:

> At 10:41 AM 22/9/95 +0000, you wrote:
> >Mike H said,
> >>have downloaded many names from the IML, to my surprise over 40
> >>percent of the people are not registered users, of course this comes
> >>form the fact that they have a copy that they got from a guy on the
> >>street corner for $2.00 and it did not have a warranty card.
> >
> >Before we all start shouting that 40% of the people on this list are
> >pirates, remember the fact that Imagine 2.0 has been included on
> >coverdisks of both Amiga Format and PC Format.
>
> Would people please note it was NOT Mike H that said these people are
> pirates - he just noted how many unregistered users there are here.
>
> Also, to those who point out 2.0 being on the mag cover - are anything
> like 40% of the queries here to do with 2.0?? Relatively few, I would
> say.
>
>

Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 10:48:43
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Sun, 24 Sep 1995, Bill Boyce wrote:

> >
> >Before we all start shouting that 40% of the people on this list are
> >pirates, remember the fact that Imagine 2.0 has been included on
> >coverdisks of both Amiga Format and PC Format.

More importantly, it was included in Shadduck's book "3D Modeling Lab"

> Would people please note it was NOT Mike H that said these people are
> pirates - he just noted how many unregistered users there are here.

The implication was clear that he considered the 40 percenters pirates.
Personally, I would have never joined this list if I had known that
by doing so, I helped to bolster the self-serving paranoia of a software
vendor. I resent the use of this mailing list for such purposes.

> Also, to those who point out 2.0 being on the mag cover - are anything
> like 40% of the queries here to do with 2.0?? Relatively few, I would
> say.

I used to ask questions all the time, but why bother when the answer
solely consists of "You should upgrade, you should upgrade!"?
Look, this list has had a couple of interesting threads, but mostly
all it's meant to me is interminable discussions about a long-dead
personal computer platform. In my case, this doesn't tend to foster
the desire to participate actively in conversation.


Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 10:59:09
Subject: Re: good water
From:    Mike McCool <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > I'm using Essence's caustics and random ripple texture, and the stills
> > are absolutely delicious looking.  It's just when I try morphing between
> > different parameters of these textures over time, to achieve a moving
> > water look, it comes out very unrealistic.
> >
> >
> You need to use the Essence texture, Waves.  This works great
>

Hey Jim,

      Thanks, you, for your response.  I can't seem to find a WAVES
texture in Essence, only SEAWAVES.  I'll try this.  Imagine textures
include a WAVES texture, so I'll check this one out, too, long as I'm at it.

Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 13:39:02
Subject: Imagine 4.0 documentation
From:    Manjit Bedi <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know what the intended documentation for Imagine 4.0
will be?

Will Impulse include <complete> documenation for the FX and
textures in hard copy form.

I would really like it Impulse includes the texture and FX
documentation in separate manauls with many illustations.

Such that they could be used as references.

Any another thing I would hope - is they toss in a CD
with projects to accompany the tutorials that may be in
the 4.0 manual.

Manjit

Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 13:45:17
Subject: RE: Shading Bands
From:    Marty K <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Jeff Hanna wrote:

>
> Sorry, but for the last time, your wrong. with only 256 available shades of
 each primary color (RGB), solid objects of those primary colors, and ones of
 black/grey/white will appear banded even when rendered at 24 bit.
>
> Do the math. 256R x 256G x 256B = 16.7M all colors. What do you think that
 256R is? It's the available shades of Red. a solid red object only has 8 bits
 of color attributable to it. This means that at best, even on a 24bit
 display, it will have 256 available shades.
>
> If 24bit gives you all colors (which it doesn't) why is there a 48bit TIFF
 format? Not that it's widely used, granted.
>

Well, this is maybe not a subject that should be continued for ages,
especially since it doesn't actually directly concern Imagine.
Anyway, I'll add my opinion because I feel I have to say something :-)

In HAM6 the palette is 12 bit, which means 4 bits for each color
component. That equals 16 shades of red, green, blue and grey.
Nevertheless a white object rendered in HAM6 can show more than 16 shades
in it. Because only 16 shades of pure gray are possible, some of the
shades are not pure gray. The RGB-values can be for example:

000 001 011 111 112 122 222 etc.

In this case only every third is pure gray. The others are anyhow shades
between the pure ones. In HAM6 you can very distinctively see, that the
colours are not quite correct.
But in the case of 24 bit palette, the colour difference (hue?) is very
very small between say RGB FF8888 and RGB FF8889. So, in a red sphere the
shades can go for example like this:

88-00-00  88-01-00  88-01-01  89-01-01  89-02-01  89-02-02  8A-02-02 ...

So the possible shades are 3 x 256. It depends on the software, whether
it produces the "unpure" shades or not. Also I guess the software would
have to process the image in more than 24 bit to do this. In HAM6 it
works like this:

24-bit RGB 75-75-75 (decimal values)--> 12-bit RGB 5-5-4 or 5-4-5 or 4-5-5
(75 divided by 16 is about 4.7)

To my opinion more than 24 bit is not necessary to display images; the
possible bands in very subtle shadings can be overcome with slight dithering.
For image processing, however, it is possibly necessary to use 36 or 48
bits (in memory only) so that the 24-bit image is calculated from this
enhanced palette. This allows very much editing in the image without the
loss of colour data. For instance, if you darken an area to half of it's
original value, and then later brighten it back to double, in 24-bit this
happens: 101 -> 50 -> 100 (original value is changed), but in 27-bit (512
values for each component):

In memory:  202 -> 101 -> 202
In display: 101 -> 50  -> 101

I know this sounds a bit complicated, but if you think about it, it makes
sense.

__    __  __  _ __  ___  _____  __ __ _  __    __    "Nothing is real"
'=\/T/='  I|\/| //\ I| )/ I| \\_/  I|/   '=\T\/='    mk-tel.sik.ppoy.fi
  /^^   * I|  |//~~\I|~\  I|  I|   I|\  *   ^^\        Pori, FINLAND
          ~~  ~~~  ~~~  ~ ~~  ~~   ~~ ~          http://www.ppoy.fi/~mk-tel


Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 14:04:06
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Marty K <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 24 Sep 1995, Bill Boyce wrote:

> At 10:41 AM 22/9/95 +0000, you wrote:
> >pirates, remember the fact that Imagine 2.0 has been included on
> >coverdisks of both Amiga Format and PC Format.
>
> Would people please note it was NOT Mike H that said these people are
> pirates - he just noted how many unregistered users there are here.
>
> Also, to those who point out 2.0 being on the mag cover - are anything
> like 40% of the queries here to do with 2.0?? Relatively few, I would
> say.
>
Now that you mentioned it, many owners of 2.0 mag cover version might
want to know if it's of any use in upgrading to 4.0.

Marty


Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 14:27:19
Subject: EYE FRY TV
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All-

Just letting all of you European users out there know that there
was recently a tv show completed here in Boston MA.  The show was
duplicated and shipped to Munich, Amsterdam, Florence and London.
The show was mostly distributed to Art Galleries and museums, but
several Networks were also approached.  The name of the show is
EYE FRY TV.  All of the 3d animation contained in the show (approx.
5 minutes worth) was created with Imagine.  This is not a show
in the same sense as Babylon 5, but a compilation of interesting
artistic video works.  If you have opportunity, time and place
to view it, I would be most interested in feedback.

Thanks-

Bob O'Connell
Cross Platform Productions, Animation Division
Boston, MA

[e-mail]

Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 14:51:37
Subject: Stereoscopy etc.
From:    Marty K <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi everybody!

I have updated my homepage so that it has also stuff in english.
Anybody who is interested in stereoscpy can check my stereoscopy page.
All stereoscopic images (except the one with horses) are produced with
Imagine. Random stereograms are made with my self-made software out of
imagine objects rendered with the Z-buffer texture.
If someone wants to know more about this, I'll propably include a full
explanation in my page soon.
My http-address is included in my signature below.


__    __  __  _ __  ___  _____  __ __ _  __    __    "Nothing is real"
'=\/T/='  I|\/| //\ I| )/ I| \\_/  I|/   '=\T\/='    mk-tel.sik.ppoy.fi
  /^^   * I|  |//~~\I|~\  I|  I|   I|\  *   ^^\        Pori, FINLAND
          ~~  ~~~  ~~~  ~ ~~  ~~   ~~ ~          http://www.ppoy.fi/~mk-tel


Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 17:41:00
Subject: Re: How to get a glossy B
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> Yeah, Mike Halvorsen mailed me and said that if I had registered, =I-> should
 be getting one. Well, now I have something to watch the mai=lboWell, not necess
arily so. I moved, and even though I gave Impulse mynew address, and even ordere
d 3.0 from my new address (which I didreceive)....I've yet to get any other info
, newsletters, brochures et=c.=66rom them here.Too bad they don't have their Web
Site up and running. We could use it= toupdate registered users personal info ..
. not to mention all sorts ofother uses. Like FAQ's.--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Hau
s BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 17:51:43
Subject: Re:Glossy Brochure
From:    Brad Molsen <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


      To all,
After reading some of the legimate reasons people have submitted for
being on the list and not registered to Impulse, I can see some of your
points. I apologise to anyone I might have offended. As someone stated I
was coming across like the gustopo "Show me your papers, please!". Could
we just chalk it up to a bad hair day and let it go at that? I do stand
by my statement that anyone that is a pirate and is asking questions that
could be found in the manual or by contacting Impulse is bloody stupid. I
also wish to say that my alluding to piracy at all is strickly my own
interpretation of Mike's statement and as you will read below was not
entirely accurate. I am just bullish on this list and what it offers all
of us and am just as bullish, as I know you all are, on Imagine. Again,
I am sorry and I return the bandwidth to more appropriate discussions and
I hope more tutorials.

On 22 Sep 1995, Mike Halvorson wrote:

> Brad
>
> Not too quick, my comment was more to the point that people who want the
> software dont even take the time to send a warranty card that we provide to us
,
> so that we can make them aware of the reality of things, then without any reas
on
> they bitch about things that they dont know about because we cant communicate
> with them.
>
> Theft was only a passing thought.
>
> Mike
>
>

Date:    Sunday, 24 September 1995 20:29:26
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Catherine A Tromanhauser <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's my story.  My wife had ordered Imagine 3.0 for me for my birthday
on her credit card but shortly thereafter cancelled it because I found a
used copy for sale.  I bought the copy, the owner sent a letter to
Impulse and cc'd to myself transfering registration to me.  Funny
thing is, my wife got the last newsletter from Impulse and I did not.
Also Mike H. wouldn't find my name from this list because I use my wife's
access account.  I'm afraid to even call for the upgrade because of the
horror stories I've read here and for the fact that Impulse would
probably have no record of my purchase.  Oh well.

Sully

(Andrew Sullivan, not Catherine Tromanhauser.  Imagine purchased from
Scott Nichols:  just in case Mike reads this)


Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 02:41:59
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Joe Piche <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Sun, 24 Sep 1995, Stephen Gifford wrote:

> I definately would have to agree with the above statement.  Most of the
> people who are using the cover disk couldn't afford to by the full version,
> so how the heck are they going to affor Internet access.  I realize that
> some students get this for free, still even if 20% of the users on the list
> were using illegal copies of Imagine, that is only a small reflection of the
> total number of pirated versions out there.

I went out and bought the book 3d modeling lab. Cost about $60 bux cdn.
Now, what is the point of me registering the Program? I'm not likely to
buy the next one. I use imagine for minor stuff.

Internet access is not that expensive. I get my free, through a freenet
in our city. As well, $100 can buy you a years access (no time limit)
with PPP/SLIP.

As for the comment small reflection of pirated versions... That is
unfortunatly true. I meet very few amiga users that don't have or had a
pirate copy of imagine at some time.  I couldn't say about the PC world.
Every one I know owns there own copy..

I would think that a program as complicated as Imagine would need manuals
to make it work fully. Thats why I spent the cash to get it. Manuals.

Thats my opinion, not yours, Joe

Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 02:51:36
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    [e-mail] (Stephen Gifford)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Would people please note it was NOT Mike H that said these people are
>pirates - he just noted how many unregistered users there are here.
>
>Also, to those who point out 2.0 being on the mag cover - are anything
>like 40% of the queries here to do with 2.0?? Relatively few, I would
>say.
>
>
I definately would have to agree with the above statement.  Most of the
people who are using the cover disk couldn't afford to by the full version,
so how the heck are they going to affor Internet access.  I realize that
some students get this for free, still even if 20% of the users on the list
were using illegal copies of Imagine, that is only a small reflection of the
total number of pirated versions out there.

s.g.


Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 05:44:43
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 09:48 AM 24/9/95 -0700, you wrote:
>I used to ask questions all the time, but why bother when the answer
>solely consists of "You should upgrade, you should upgrade!"?
>Look, this list has had a couple of interesting threads, but mostly
>all it's meant to me is interminable discussions about a long-dead
>personal computer platform. In my case, this doesn't tend to foster
>the desire to participate actively in conversation.

When did the list become mandatory?? If you're bored, move on...
Incidentally, you've just contributed to one of the threads you
complained about.


Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 05:53:41
Subject: Re: <none>
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 11:34 AM 23/9/95 +1000, you wrote:
>Hello Doug, on Sep 22 you wrote:
>
>> (Who bought Imagine 3.0 but it wasn't supplied with a registration
>> card)
>
>I bought Imagine 2.0 and 3.0 here in Australia and neither had registration
>cards. I've also sent snail mail to Impulse about upgrades but never
>received a response. I hope I have better luck with cross-upgrading when I
>switch to a PC.
>
>-- Bob
>
>  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
>  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :

Mine (3.0) had no rego card either. I sent Impulse a sales receipt and a
letter from
my dealer to that effect, and have had no trouble getting upgrades, and was
placed on their database on the strength of the letter.

Oh, and to those who say you can't learn Imagine 2 without a manual, I did
so using
Steve Worley's understanding Imagine, and purchased Imagine when I became a
'commercial' user. Not something I'm proud of, just an economic fact.


Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 08:14:33
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail] (Attila Montvai)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi all,

this is the reason I write:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Mike H said,
>>have downloaded many names from the IML, to my surprise over 40
>>percent of the people are not registered users, of course this comes
>>form the fact that they have a copy that they got from a guy on the
>>street corner for $2.00 and it did not have a warranty card.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

First: I bought v.  3.0. based on a advertisment
which contained untrue statements about the  functionality.
The action was based on an agreement with Impulse as it
was claimed in the ad.
BTW the copy was not for $2.00 at all!

So: If I lived in the States, I would have required my
money back with all of the legal aspects involved!

Of course there was no registration card in the package.

So if >>40<< % of the users is pirate, than the whole
of the 'Gang at Impulse' is cheater!

Attila.

P.S. 1. Can someone tell the "President" the address of INTERPOL?

P.S. 2. There is a proverb: a fish gets stinky at its head first.



Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 10:32:08
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Greg Tatham <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >I used to ask questions all the time, but why bother when the answer
> >solely consists of "You should upgrade, you should upgrade!"?
> >Look, this list has had a couple of interesting threads, but mostly
> >all it's meant to me is interminable discussions about a long-dead
> >personal computer platform. In my case, this doesn't tend to foster
> >the desire to participate actively in conversation.
>
> When did the list become mandatory?? If you're bored, move on...
> Incidentally, you've just contributed to one of the threads you
> complained about.

As a V2.0 lurker ("3-D Modelling Lab"), dyed-in-der-wool Win95 geek,
and weekend (at best) renderer, my tuppence worth:
  a)  I've *tried* contacting Mike H. twice (at the C$erve address
mentioned in the FAQ (yes--I RTFF)) to get upgrade info, pricing,
etc., to no effect.  (My snailmail port is hung.)
  2)  I read of a Windoze port with great joy.
so
  d)  I'm an unregistered lurker, wading through the list, collecting
snippets that might or might not be useful if an upgrade ever
presents itself.  Too many digits in the price-tag however--so am
soon likely to be taking my greater-than-a-couple-hundred but
far-less-than-$1695 biz elsewhere.

(& I *ass*ume Imagine got effortless residuals from the sale of that
book, right . . ?)

Auto-sig & Regards from,

    Greg Tatham [[e-mail]             ]
                [[e-mail]            ]
                [http://www.mcs.net/~twitch/]

Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 12:47:10
Subject: TestSpeed
From:    Red Hawk <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have created an Imagine Project to have speed comparison for
     different Machine..........Please Test it on your machine
     and report me!!!!!!!!!!!

Description:
    There are 3 files in SPEEDCO.LHA
    SPEEDAM.LHA Project for AMIGA
    SPEEDPC.LHA Project for PC
    and a brush maps to put in the directory Object

 .---------------------------------------------------------.
 | E-Mail: [e-mail]              __/// |
 | Amiga 4000/40 25Mhz 18Mb 2.0Gb SCSI II            \XX/  |
 | AMD DX4 100Mhz 49Mb 4.45Gb SCSI II                      |
 | Home Page:                                              |
 | http://cdc715_0.cdc.polimi.it/~qua1397/                 |
 `---------------------------------------------------------'


--> ATTACHEMENT: speedco.lha <--
Attachement is included in IML_archive of September.


Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 12:57:19
Subject: Re: How do I get out of here
From:    Edward Chadez <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a previous letter, David Kemper wrote:
}
} Just exactly how do I get off of this mailing list? I've posted unsubscribe
} to every address I have and it's always bounced back.
}

Try--

      [e-mail]

Not that it will work:  I've been sending "UNSUBSCRIBE" emails to that
address since last Thursday.  Nothing's bounced, and using elm in verbose
mode I know that the message is being received by email.eag.unisysgsg.com.

      -Ed
--
     Edward Chadez, Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst at CARL Corporation
   When web surfing, visit Galileo's Universe at http://galileo.carl.org/
A3000(25)/3.1(ROM)/CV64  Amiga user since 1987.  Internet surfer since 1987.

Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 14:43:00
Subject: Something cool
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to get back onto something "interesting", I've discovered acool freeware mo
deller for Windows called WinBlob. It allows youto create metaballs like the one
 Mike H. created in AlienArt.jpg.It's real easy to use, I was able to duplicate
Mike H.'s objectin a couple minutes. It can save out in DXF format too.You can f
ind it at ftp.povray.org in the Modeller directory.   /-------------------------
-----           ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der Sommen
/ __  /__/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.                     /___/ / \  /
  /  /     / \  | [e-mail]     HAUS BBS (805-683-13
88)  |           "Blackouts make for nice breaks in the day"   \________________
_____________________________________________--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS -
 Santa Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 14:58:00
Subject: Unregistered users
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> I definately would have to agree with the above statement.  Most o=f t-> peop
le who are using the cover disk couldn't afford to by the full= ve-> so how the
heck are they going to affor Internet access.  I realiz=e t-> some students get
this for free, still even if 20% of the users on= th-> were using illegal copies
 of Imagine, that is only a small reflect=ion-> total number of pirated versions
 out there.Oh pleeeese. This is worse than platform wars!!!!Let's get over it, a
nd move on to something more interesting orhelpful. Whatever happened to all tho
se tips and tricks we weregetting for awhile?   /------------------------------
          ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der Sommen                     / __
/__/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.                     /___/ / \  /  /  /
     / \  | [e-mail]     HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |
           "Blackouts make for nice breaks in the day"   \______________________
_______________________________________--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 18:05:40
Subject: Re: How to get a glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sep 23,  2:02pm, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > Roger asked how to get a glossy brochure....
> >
> > The asnwer is simple!  Call Impulse at 1-800-328-0184 (USA and Canada)
> > or at 612-425-0557 for International calls.  I am sure that they
> > will be happy to send you one.
> >
> > I think that all registered users must have received one in the mail.
>
> Yeah, Mike Halvorsen mailed me and said that if I had registered, I
> should be getting one. Well, now I have something to watch the mailbox for...
>
> > \KenR
> >
>
> See ya,
>     Roger
>-- End of excerpt from [e-mail]

Is this only for people who haven't upgraded already?  I have 3.3, but have
received no brochure.

Craig




--
 _____________________________________________________________________________
            __
          #####       Craig Hoffman
         #~ ~###      [e-mail]
          @ @ #?)
          <  /|       Walt Disney Feature Animation
          `-' /
          |__/
 _____________________________________________________________________________


Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 18:44:10
Subject: Re: How do I get out of here
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Edward Chadez wrote:

>
> Try--
>
>     [e-mail]
>
> Not that it will work:  I've been sending "UNSUBSCRIBE" emails to that
> address since last Thursday.  Nothing's bounced, and using elm in verbose
> mode I know that the message is being received by email.eag.unisysgsg.com.

I've heard that that address doesn't work. Try--

      [e-mail]

It's the older address, but I think it still works.

>
>     -Ed
> --
>      Edward Chadez, Lead Senior Programmer/Analyst at CARL Corporation
>    When web surfing, visit Galileo's Universe at http://galileo.carl.org/
> A3000(25)/3.1(ROM)/CV64  Amiga user since 1987.  Internet surfer since 1987.
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 19:20:27
Subject: Re: How to get a glossy Brochure
From:    Curtis White <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> Is this only for people who haven't upgraded already?  I have 3.3, but have
> received no brochure.
>
> Craig
>


I have 3.3 and got my brochure today.  Looks nice.

Thanks,

Curt




=========================================================
=        Do not follow where the path may lead.         =
= Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.  =
=========================================================

Curtis White


Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 21:14:58
Subject: Re: How do I get out of here
From:    Bob Arnold <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


You can check out any time you want,
but you can never leave......

muhahahahahahahaaaaaa   -Bob


On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, David Kemper wrote:

> Just exactly how do I get off of this mailing list? I've posted unsubscribe
> to every address I have and it's always bounced back.
>
>

Date:    Monday, 25 September 1995 23:24:55
Subject: To see or not to see......
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all.

My friend Scott(Impulse) has put up a homepage at sharky's, and there you
will see some of my recent pics. They where also featured in their brochure.
Let me know what you think?
Later

http://www.websharx.com:80/~cptvideo/

Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 00:58:19
Subject: Imagine a CyberGraphs screen
From:    [e-mail] (Rune Jacobsen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>It is a damn shame.... if another 6 month's passby without Imagine
>start to support my Picasso / CyberGraphX card, i will move all my 3d
>activities to Macintosh instead...
>It is a shame, but i can't continue tracing i PAL:HIRES-LACE....
>Please Impulse, do the magic things, you used to be so good at...

I use Imagine 3.3 (bought used) with my CyberVision64 4MB, and I have
promoted Imagine's screen to a CVISION screen mode with only two problems
so far:

1) I can't make preview animations like state anims and such.
   Well, I can make them, but not view them. :)
2) If I, say, move an object, when I hit space to say I'm satisfied, it's
   drawn in the new position, but the object is not removed from it's
   old position. Sort of annoying in a big scene that takes hours to
   redraw (no, it doesn't really takes hours. But it feels like it).

So...If they could make it more system friendly in that you could actually
select a screen mode for the thing, I would be very, very happy.

Yeah, by the way. When I show a quickrender or a trace of some sort. I want
to be able to pick the screenmode for that as well.

Thanks.

Sgt. Rune Jacobsen -=> [e-mail] <=- IRC: Shitlips @ #AmigaCafe
X-Files - Simpsons - Ren & Stimpy - Rosenborg - Amiga User since 1988
A4000/040-18MB RAM-0.5GB HD-IDEK 15" MultiFlat-CV64 4MB-INTEL OUTSIDE
BotsB Developer - Winner of Most Useless Utility Competition at TG'93

Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 02:13:55
Subject: Re: <none>
From:    Duncan <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi postmaster,

> (Who bought Imagine 3.0 but it wasn't supplied with a registration
> card)

  I didnt get i card for V3 but impulse sent me the 'constant upgrade'
form/info to get on the program (in the graphic gazzette ???)
 Although my upgrade (V3) came via Amiga Format and Bristol

 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 \\                           [e-mail]                      \\
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 08:21:45
Subject: Re: TestSpeed
From:    [e-mail] (Stephen Gifford)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Speed Test

640 x 480 Full Trace Mode
7min. 58sec.

486-DX4-100  32 Meg Ram.
PCI Bus, w PCI Video Card
No preferences were changed to optimize render.

Stephen G.

Ugly Picture!!


Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 11:06:52
Subject: Re: TestSpeed
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fab, at last someone has got round to this. Just a few thoughts before everyone

wastes their time tracing this up:-

* What anti-aliasing settings are you using in preferences, this can make a
  HUGE, HUGE difference to render times voiding any results from different
  folks!!

* The textures used (ie. MONSTER), are only compiled for 680x0 + fpu, I know, I
  know - this is the case for all textures with Imagine (+ Amiga exe version)
  and PC users don't yet have the wonderful Essence to play/test with (these
  are compiled for 040). I use 040 compiled textures where ever I can, as
  Essence textures are very flexible and can easily achieve effects similar to
  Imagines default. A x2 speed up for 060/040 users is easily obtainable.
  It just seems to me that this trace is designed to test a ground plane of
  MONSTER texture, the only objects are three SMALL shiny spheres and a few spot

  lights...

-gary


Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 11:56:27
Subject: My New Web Page
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi all,
just blowing my own horn a bit.  I've just opened a small, and only
partly finished web page. its:

http://www.nd.edu/~gdenby

One of the pages has a few of my Imagine renderings, all fairly
recent, and none quite polished.  All my best stuff was sitting on
the Ami HD that died 2 months ago.  Nevertheless, I hope you find
some of it interesting.  As usual, comments/questions welcome

Greg Denby
[e-mail]

Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 13:57:30
Subject: TestSpeed
From:    Red Hawk <qua1397@cdc712_1.sp.paramax.com>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi to all...............
      these are my results of the test with

      AMIGA 4000 040/25Mhz 16Mb 3000sec. to ram

      PC AMD DX4100Mhz 16Mb      409sec.


 .---------------------------------------------------------.
 | E-Mail: [e-mail]              __/// |
 | Amiga 4000/40 25Mhz 18Mb 2.0Gb SCSI II            \XX/  |
 | AMD DX4 100Mhz 49Mb 4.45Gb SCSI II                      |
 | Home Page:                                              |
 | http://cdc715_0.cdc.polimi.it/~qua1397/                 |
 `---------------------------------------------------------'

Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 14:08:38
Subject: Create IT!!!
From:    Red Hawk <qua1397@cdc712_1.sp.paramax.com>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have try to create a simple rendering to test speed
  with AMIGA & PC, only to see which processor
  should I take 68060 or PENTIUM ???????????????

If someone can create a more affidable PRJ and can test
  on different Processor Please SEND ME.........!!!!!!!!!!!


P.S. I would like to have MonED istructions to change
  screenmode on AMIGA, I have a good Monitor (Targa 15')
  but I can't exploit IT!!!!!!!!!


 .---------------------------------------------------------.
 | E-Mail: [e-mail]              __/// |
 | Amiga 4000/40 25Mhz 18Mb 2.0Gb SCSI II            \XX/  |
 | AMD DX4 100Mhz 49Mb 4.45Gb SCSI II                      |
 | Home Page:                                              |
 | http://cdc715_0.cdc.polimi.it/~qua1397/                 |
 `---------------------------------------------------------'

Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 15:37:37
Subject: Re: Walker2 cycleobject on Aminet!
From:    Mr Krzysztof Korski <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


 Hi friends,
I have a pleasure to let you know about corrected version of
Armoured Walker. If you want to have it just look for it in
"gfx/3dobj" directory in wuarchiwe.wustl.edu.
                         *******************

You should remember that it is a PostCardWare object, so if you
like and use it, send me a colorful postcard from the town you
live in. All information in .readme file.
                                    Yours sincerely,
                                    Krzysztof Korski

well known as...  [e-mail]


Date:    Tuesday, 26 September 1995 15:54:35
Subject: E-Mail down
From:    [e-mail] (Milan Polle)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all,

my E-Mail has been down since last Friday, if there where any response
to my question about paying for the constant upgrade with Eurochecks
or to my 4.0 must have list, please send them again.
I hope the bouncing mails didn't cause too much trouble and my mailing
list acount is still there.

Thanks in advance!

Milan



Date:    Wednesday, 27 September 1995 00:11:40
Subject: Re: Single frame recording VCR
From:    Kent Marshall Worley <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Tue, 19 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> A VCR with flying erase heads and frame-by-frame forward/reverse control
> would seem to me to be capable of (albeit manual) single frame recording.
> What am I missing here?  Obviously it's not that simple, but I've never
> worked with recording animations to tape, and never even looked into it.
> JN

I would like to see try that! The deck in question is made by sanyo. I
cannot remember the model but it advertised in lots of AV trade magazines.

Date:    Wednesday, 27 September 1995 02:59:12
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

O.K., I am resending this message, including the settings of my EDLE etc.
As someone
mentioned, these will have a strong effect on the outcome.

Re: Speed Test

Edle 10
RSDP 8
Old Style Antialiasing

640 x 480 Full Trace Mode
7min. 58sec.

486-DX4-100  32 Meg Ram.
PCI Bus, w PCI Video Card
No preferences were changed to optimize render.

Stephen G.

Ugly Picture!!


Date:    Wednesday, 27 September 1995 04:51:49
Subject: ------=> Sorry NO Subject!
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Curtis White wrote:

>
> I have 3.3 and got my brochure today.  Looks nice.
>

What an understatement! It looks GRRRRRR-EAT!

>
> =========================================================
> =        Do not follow where the path may lead.         =
> = Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.  =
> =========================================================
>
> Curtis White
>
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Wednesday, 27 September 1995 07:27:10
Subject: WinImagine
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 04:23 PM 26/9/95 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Curtis White wrote:
>
>>
>> I have 3.3 and got my brochure today.  Looks nice.
>>
>
>What an understatement! It looks GRRRRRR-EAT!
>

Got mine too, and does look good. However, does anyone else get
the impression WinImagine is going to be little different
to Imagine 4.0? Quote :
"There will be several new features in Imagine for Windows,
however most of them are Windows related features like
virtual memory, better point device support" etc
ie No actual new 'features'

Bill Boyce


Date:    Wednesday, 27 September 1995 15:23:09
Subject: Re: DCTV RGB PassThru
From:    Ayalon Hermony <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello,

Have a unit for sale. Hardly used, docs and everything.

Please contact me off the IML, so we won't bother others.



           How do you come back from 3D ?
Ayalon M. Hermony,        Internet: [e-mail]


Date:    Wednesday, 27 September 1995 16:23:33
Subject: Re: IML (fwd)
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



---------- Forwarded message ----------


>On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Roger Straub wrote:

[snip]

HI,
      I haven't been able to reach Dave privately and the sp.paramax
address doesn't seems to work either :-< Do you know someone on the list
that could help me to subscribe in! I don't know what to do....

                      thanks very much


------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone help this poor lost soul? Thanx.

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Wednesday, 27 September 1995 20:43:15
Subject: IMAGINEfp locks 3000 w. Retina
From:    Old_Man <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


My Amiga 3000 has been churning out raytraces with IMAGINEfp and a Retina
board. Now the cursor ( with either mouse or cursor keys) and the
screen locks  before the IMAGINEfp screen comes up. As other programs
(including Imagine regular flavor) run all right, I suspect the Amiga's
fp but for obvious reasons I would rather not believe that.

Any alternative solutions gratefully accepted. In the absence of logical
alternatives - how tough would it be to make a hardware fix?

Thanks

Bill


Date:    Wednesday, 27 September 1995 21:47:58
Subject: Re:Glossy Brochure
From:    Kent Marshall Worley <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Brad Molsen wrote:

> On 21 Sep 1995, Mike Halvorson wrote:
>
>
> > To that point, over the last six months, I have downloaded many names from t
he
> > IML, to my surprise over 40 percent of the people are not registered users,

> >
> >
> >   Mike Halvorson
>
> To all, This SUCKS!! and I'm not referring to Mike monitoring the list and
> comimng up with this stat. It takes alot of stones (let alone stupidity) to
> have one's name on the list as a inquirer or contributor knowing that you
> have a hot copy. It's too bad Dave W. doesn't have a registered users
> list to compare to IML's list so he could bump these people to
> Lurkerville where they could hope to pick up tidbits of info they need to
> better understand the tool and be left to pick thru the bones of the
> feast that we all enjoy by the open exchange afforded us by having
> registered.
>                             nuff said,
>                                     Brad
>
I have seen IML users discreetly give the cold shoulder to obvious
pirates of imagine. Sometimes we not discreet and tell the poster to by
the program! 200$ to upgrade sounds fair enough to me if you want to run
it on windows.

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 00:16:16
Subject: RE:WinImagine
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey

I talked with Scott and Mike when I was over there in August, and even if they
didnt promissed anything, I would think that the impression of a feature packed

Win4.0, is very possible, I think that all of the ongoing work on the dos-4.0,
that dont get finished for the realese, will be put in WinImagine. And I hope
that theses features are high end stuff like:
-multiple foreground layers with alphas
-alpha generation
-More and better effects(global, sub global)
-true filter object type
-true density fog object type
-polished and more user friendly gui for the animation editors(stage,action)

As I said, nothing of this is confirmed, so dont take this note as the definite

truth about the upcoming WinImagine.
Later

Tom Granberg "Renderbrandt"



Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 00:33:12
Subject: Re: Subcribe
From:    Steven M Powell <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Rodney McNeel wrote:

>
> subcribe
>
> I've tried both addresses to get back on the list:
>
>     [e-mail]
>         [e-mail]
>
> and still haven't gotten any imagine mail....could someone subscribe me
> to the correct address, for I am in need.
>
>                     [e-mail]
>
>
Welcome Rodney. Glad to have you in the arena.

Let me tell you what you have missed so far...

Bitch, Moan, Grown !!!!  - mostly towards Mike H. (Impulse sofware)

A couple of good tips and info on how to get more.

Some test rendering benchmarks (good idea) with a standard scene for both
platforms (Amiga , PC).

Some talk off upgrades and future plans for Imagine.

Thats about it.


Oh Mike H, if you read this. Pretty please send me a flyer about the 4.0
deal. I am allready registered to recieve it anyway, I just want to see the
pretty colors I 've heard about. Thanks.

                                      Render on

                                      Phoenix




Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 00:46:27
Subject: Re: Intuition Interface
From:    [e-mail] (Michael Rivers)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a reply from M.Halverson to the message I posted on IML,
it should let us Amiga Imagine users know where we stand.

BTW, Flame me if you wish about net-etticate(sp?).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Rivers

You have a right to your opinion, but what it looks like is much less
important
that what it does.  You are spending your time worrying about something that
is
old news.  Get with the program, we have moved on, until there is major
support
for the Amiga and a new updated and supported OS we are going to stick with
what
we have.  If that makes you mad, please dont waste air time telling me about
it,
I already know how you feel.  Dont tell us how to program unless youare going
to
show up here and do the job, we are taxed to the hilt to get things that we
have
comitted to done, we have never said that we would indeed change the UI and we
have lived to that promise.

So if you want to move to something more productive, great if not, then, well
I
have no then, so you figure it out.

Before you blow a gasket, try for a moment to be a bit open minded, we have
many
users to make happy, and comments like make it look better are just a waste of
your breath, if we do something that makes it look better and you dont like
it,
then what, do we change it to meet your needs, doubt it.

Many users, like your self who feel strongly take the time to show us what
they
want, its your turn or we move onto the next battle.


Mike


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 03:10:53
Subject: Re: TestSpeed
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Red, on Sep 26 you wrote:

> Hi to all...............
>       these are my results of the test with
>
>       AMIGA 4000 040/25Mhz 16Mb 3000sec. to ram
>
>       PC AMD DX4100Mhz 16Mb      409sec.

3000 second is 50 minutes, is this a typo?  My A3000 030/25 did it in
17min 42sec. 640x512 Trace - EDLE = 12, AARC = 10, OLDA = F

-- Bob

  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 03:15:37
Subject: Re: TestSpeed
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Stephen, on Sep 26 you wrote:

> Re: Speed Test
>
> 640 x 480 Full Trace Mode
> 7min. 58sec.
>
> 486-DX4-100  32 Meg Ram.
> PCI Bus, w PCI Video Card
> No preferences were changed to optimize render.

This won't be a fair comparison if the resolutions are different for the
Amiga and PC. My sub-project was set at 640x512.

-- Bob

  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 03:26:07
Subject: Re: Create IT!!!
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Red, on Sep 26 you wrote:

> I have try to create a simple rendering to test speed
>   with AMIGA & PC, only to see which processor
>   should I take 68060 or PENTIUM ???????????????

I've seen a message in comp.sys.amiga.graphics where someone had an 060 in
their A4000/040 and was over the moon because he got a 2x speed increase
when rendering in Imagine. Mind you, it may be a different story if/when
software is optimised for an 060. In the meantime I'm going for a Pentium.

-- Bob

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 04:16:46
Subject: Wish List
From:    [e-mail] (Stephen Gifford)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Things I'd most like to see in Win Imagine.

Selectable Shadow Tracing.
Scanline w/ Shadows, but not if it's not significantly faster.
Spline Modeler.
Stage and Action Editor Integrated into one Editor.
Being able to change States in Stage.
Selection of objects to change attributes in Stage.
Global Sky Effect that renders quickly without Transparency layers.
Object Smoothing.
Jpeg Support for image maps.
Face Reduction.
Support for GDI or the newer DirectDraw API.
A Delete function for models that are no longer needed.

I guess that would make me happy for now. :)

S.G.


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 05:04:38
Subject: Imagine something hairy...
From:    Bush Doktor <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


   Just noticed in a magazine that someone has put out a program
for lightwave that creates (or re-creates) hair.  Has anyone seen
this work?  I'd really like to have something like this for Imagine
without having to have 128megs of ram to work with the object. :-)
Maybe something along the lines of Ian's Stars program.

+--__Imagine some new uses for a firecracker board__--+

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 06:23:14
Subject: Re:Glossy Brochure
From:    George Lane <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



> On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Brad Molsen wrote:
> > On 21 Sep 1995, Mike Halvorson wrote:
> >
> > > To that point, over the last six months, I have downloaded many names
from the
> > > IML, to my surprise over 40 percent of the people are not registered
users,
> > >
> > >
> > >         Mike Halvorson
> >
> > To all, This SUCKS!! and I'm not referring to Mike monitoring the list and
> > comimng up with this stat. It takes alot of stones (let alone stupidity) to

> > have one's name on the list as a inquirer or contributor knowing that you
> > have a hot copy. It's too bad Dave W. doesn't have a registered users
> > list to compare to IML's list so he could bump these people to
> > Lurkerville where they could hope to pick up tidbits of info they need to
> > better understand the tool and be left to pick thru the bones of the
> > feast that we all enjoy by the open exchange afforded us by having
> > registered.

I think Mike making this assumption is not well thought out. I bought the
book 3D Modeling Lab, and used to use the copy of Imagine that same with
it. I have moved on to something else. I'm sure a lot of others have
done the same. I still monitor the list for general animation tips
though. But since I'm not in Mike's database, he thinks I'm a pirate.

George


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 07:21:23
Subject: RE:WinImagine
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 01:16 AM 28/9/95 +0200, you wrote:
>Hey
>
>I talked with Scott and Mike when I was over there in August, and even if they

>didnt promissed anything, I would think that the impression of a feature
packed
>Win4.0, is very possible, I think that all of the ongoing work on the dos-4.0,

>that dont get finished for the realese, will be put in WinImagine. And I hope

Mike replied to me that there are many new features, but the biggest was getting

it to work in Windows. I can relate to that. Windows is hard enough to use, I
dread to think what it's like to program :)

(PS, watch what you say - you never know who's listening!)


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 07:25:14
Subject: Re:Glossy Brochure
From:    Fred Aderhold <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>I have seen IML users discreetly give the cold shoulder to obvious
>pirates of imagine. Sometimes we not discreet and tell the poster to by
>the program! 200$ to upgrade sounds fair enough to me if you want to run
>it on windows.
>

I too was more than a little nervous at the $1600 retail price, but was very
much relieved about the $200 upgrade. Hmmm... wonder what happens after that.

--------------------------------------------
Fred Aderhold
[e-mail]
http://www.netrix.net/users/fredster

Daddy, what does formatting drive C mean?
--------------------------------------------


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 08:33:16
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    [e-mail] (Darryl Lewis)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Mike H said,
>>have downloaded many names from the IML, to my surprise over 40
>>percent of the people are not registered users, of course this comes
>>form the fact that they have a copy that they got from a guy on the
>>street corner for $2.00 and it did not have a warranty card.
>
>Before we all start shouting that 40% of the people on this list are
>pirates, remember the fact that Imagine 2.0 has been included on
>coverdisks of both Amiga Format and PC Format.

 BB> Would people please note it was NOT Mike H that said these people are
 BB> pirates - he just noted how many unregistered users there are here.
 BB> Also, to those who point out 2.0 being on the mag cover - are
 BB> anything
 BB> like 40% of the queries here to do with 2.0?? Relatively few, I would
 BB> say.

I am an unregistered user!!!!!! I have both the amiga and PC versions!!!!
Both came from coverdisks. Otherwise I would not have the program at all.
Whilst it is an excelent program, I do not have the time devote enough time
to it to acheive anything startling. I read this list to :
1) find out more about Imagine (coverdisks have not instruction manuals)
2) Pick up hints and tips
3) Keep up to date with new ideas

Another point is, if I did buy the latest version, why would I register?
What does it give me that this list doesn't? If I have a question, I can
post it here and receive a response from another interested person, not
some dis-satified , bored answering dumb user questions, employee.
Not to mention the fact that I live in Australia, so calling them up is out
of the question.

Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0

               #####\             _             /#####
               #( )# |          _( )__         | #( )#
               ##### |         /_    /         | #####
               #" "# |     ___m/I_ //_____     | #" "#
               # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O #
               #m.m# |   /" \ ///###\\\ / "\   | #m.m#
               #####/    ######/     \######    \#####

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 11:25:20
Subject: What will happen?
From:    Carsten Bach <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know if it is just me, who haven't understood the mails the last
weeks. But will there be new versions of Imagine for the Amiga, or even
the DraCo. With or without new interface. And will it be possible to get
a instant upgrade after version 4.0, if there comes anything for the
Amiga.




Arne Voigt
Copenhagen Denmark








Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 12:24:45
Subject: Re: DXF (Not about WinImagine)
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The answer to my question was simple: DXF's import with the PHONG attribute
off.  Just had to click it on.

Thanks to all who replied.

Alan


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 12:24:58
Subject: A pipe
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A friend of mine gave me a challenge (we are constantly having little
'friendly competitions') -- he wanted me to animate a lump moving down a
pipe.  He was thinking of the way the pipe bulges in cartoons when something
moves through it, but I guess it could also be like a snake swallowing a rat
(or whatever).  Truespace (which he uses) can easily simulate this with a
'deformation lattice', but I have no good ideas on how to do this in Imagine.
 Any ideas?

Alan.


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 12:47:06
Subject: Re: A pipe
From:    Bob Arnold <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Maybe you're looking at this wrong: "he" challenged "you" and if we all
reply we'll kick his collective butt, but is that a victory?  Better if
you find a tweaky cool little bizarre thing Imagine is good at and
challenge him to reproduce THAT in his Truespace.  See how long it takes
you vs. how long he takes on your challenge and the loser buys the winner
a 4MB SIMM.   -Bob


On Thu, 28 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> A friend of mine gave me a challenge (we are constantly having little
> 'friendly competitions') -- he wanted me to animate a lump moving down a
> pipe.  He was thinking of the way the pipe bulges in cartoons when something
> moves through it, but I guess it could also be like a snake swallowing a rat
> (or whatever).  Truespace (which he uses) can easily simulate this with a
> 'deformation lattice', but I have no good ideas on how to do this in Imagine.
>  Any ideas?
>
> Alan.
>
>

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 15:35:01
Subject: Re: A pipe
From:    Jim Rix <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 28 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> A friend of mine gave me a challenge (we are constantly having little
> 'friendly competitions') -- he wanted me to animate a lump moving down a
> pipe.  He was thinking of the way the pipe bulges in cartoons when something
> moves through it, but I guess it could also be like a snake swallowing a rat
> (or whatever).  Truespace (which he uses) can easily simulate this with a
> 'deformation lattice', but I have no good ideas on how to do this in Imagine.
>  Any ideas?
>
> Alan.
>
Here is an idea!

Create a tube that has several sections in it.

Move the section which are not on the ends toward one end of the tube.

Use scale on the moved section to change their shape into the bulge.
Make this a shape state Default.  Next, move the bulge down the tube
where we make another state with the bulge at the other end.  To make the
animation we only need to morph the two states.

Jim Rix

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 16:56:27
Subject: Re: To see or not to see......
From:    Soeren Birk Jacobsen <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------






On 26 Sep 1995, Granberg Tom wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> My friend Scott(Impulse) has put up a homepage at sharky's, and there you
> will see some of my recent pics. They where also featured in their brochure.
> Let me know what you think?
> Later
>
> http://www.websharx.com:80/~cptvideo/
>



YEP THIS SITE IS GREAT!
Steven Blackmon has a Tip/Hints page where her tellse (with text and
images) how he creates various effects (nebulae, light cones ect.)


kurgan

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 20:05:36
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    [e-mail] (Mauricio Tavares)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

While shopping for shruberries, Darryl Lewis pondered:
>
> Another point is, if I did buy the latest version, why would I register?
> What does it give me that this list doesn't? If I have a question, I can
> post it here and receive a response from another interested person, not
> some dis-satified , bored answering dumb user questions, employee.
> Not to mention the fact that I live in Australia, so calling them up is out
> of the question.
>
      I myself have Imagine 1.0(!) installed in my A2000.  I bought it
used.   I do not bother to register it since it is probably too old for
them to bother about supporting it.

--

 ===========================+=============================================
| Mauricio Tavares          | "We will attack...                          |
| [e-mail] |  ...under the cover of daylight!" Rimmer    |
 ===========================+=============================================


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 20:29:50
Subject: RE:WinImagine
From:    Curtis White <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> At 01:16 AM 28/9/95 +0200, you wrote:
> >Hey
> >
> >I talked with Scott and Mike when I was over there in August, and even if the
y
> >didnt promissed anything, I would think that the impression of a feature
> packed
> >Win4.0, is very possible, I think that all of the ongoing work on the dos-4.0
,
> >that dont get finished for the realese, will be put in WinImagine. And I hope

>
> Mike replied to me that there are many new features, but the biggest was getti
ng
> it to work in Windows. I can relate to that. Windows is hard enough to use, I
> dread to think what it's like to program :)
>
> (PS, watch what you say - you never know who's listening!)
>
>
>

When it comes to graphics, it is actually easier to program than DOS,
in my own opinion.


Thanks,

Curt






=========================================================
=        Do not follow where the path may lead.         =
= Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.  =
=========================================================

Curtis White


Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 20:42:57
Subject: Re: A pipe
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why not just make a tube, then make another object with the same width
(circumference, radius, whatever), but have it bulge outward somehow,
then just move it to the -z in the animation?  The edges of the moving
piece could be curved to make it look like it's in the tube, you could
even make the edges smaller than the real tube and that way you'd have no
fear of letting the edges show...

Just a thought from a beginner...

Oh, and by the way, I just bought Imagine 3.0 used from somebody and am
in the process of registering it.  And if they won't let me register it,
i'm still going to use it.  I'll be damned if I had to pay $120 for it
and not be able to use it!  They seem pretty up-front and
straight-forward so far, so I think I can hope for the best :)

[=====================================================================]
[      Damon L. LaCaille     |  A3000 @ 25MHz 10MB RAM / 540MB HD     ]
[=====================================================================]
[ Email - [e-mail]    | If you're not making 50 mistakes a day ]
[ WWW  - Be watching for my  |   then you're not trying hard enough!  ]
[        WWW home page here! |-=* IMAGINE - Why use anything else? *=-]
[=====================================================================]


On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Jim Rix wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > A friend of mine gave me a challenge (we are constantly having little
> > 'friendly competitions') -- he wanted me to animate a lump moving down a
> > pipe.  He was thinking of the way the pipe bulges in cartoons when something

> > moves through it, but I guess it could also be like a snake swallowing a rat

> > (or whatever).  Truespace (which he uses) can easily simulate this with a
> > 'deformation lattice', but I have no good ideas on how to do this in Imagine
.
> >  Any ideas?
> >
> > Alan.
> >
> Here is an idea!
>
> Create a tube that has several sections in it.
>
> Move the section which are not on the ends toward one end of the tube.
>
> Use scale on the moved section to change their shape into the bulge.
> Make this a shape state Default.  Next, move the bulge down the tube
> where we make another state with the bulge at the other end.  To make the
> animation we only need to morph the two states.
>
> Jim Rix
>

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 21:02:17
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Roger Straub <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Mauricio Tavares wrote:

>     I myself have Imagine 1.0(!) installed in my A2000.  I bought it
> used.   I do not bother to register it since it is probably too old for
> them to bother about supporting it.

They do! It's listed right in the brochure:Amiga Imagine 1.1 or earlier:
$300 for the upgrade to 4.0. And even if you don't upgrade, they'll send
you brochures, the Impulse Graphics Gazette (if that's what it's still
called), and you can call in and get tech support. For just 29 cents.

>
> --
>
>  ===========================+=============================================
> | Mauricio Tavares          | "We will attack...                          |
> | [e-mail] |  ...under the cover of daylight!" Rimmer    |
>  ===========================+=============================================
>
>

See ya,
      Roger

Date:    Thursday, 28 September 1995 23:59:05
Subject: Re: A pipe
From:    [e-mail] (The Prophet)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just use Imagine's Deformation Tools.  I forget when the
came into existance(3.0?), I'm on the upgrade program,
holding at 3.3.

I did a funky dancing tube once just to test the deformation
tools.  It bulged, twisted, bend, etc.  I morphed between
multiple states.  It would be very easy to bulge a snake with
the correct axis position/rotation/size and correct tool.

I think the Pinch tool is what you want.  Going one way it
will pinch but going the opposite makes the object bulge.  Don't
forget to make things smoothed.

Jaeson K.
 ____            ____            _           _
( |  \          ( /  \          ( )       _ / )
 )|   )_   __    /   /_   _  __  /   __  ( X_)
( |  /~ \ /\_)  /---~/ ) / )/  )/~\ /\_)  / _
 )ll/  l/ \__ (/   (/   (_//__//  / \__  (___)
(____________)        (___/        (___)

Jaeson Koszarsky                  Amiga 3000+
----------------                  -----------
[e-mail]              68040/30Mhz
[e-mail]                24Megs-1GIG
[e-mail]            OS3.1

Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 01:31:07
Subject: Re: Intuition Interface, or something else?
From:    [e-mail] (Michael Rivers)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok.  I post this as a challenge to Impulse, being as I know that atleast
Halverson reads this list.

Can we Amiga users get at least one thing even though it won't
be of any benefit to DOS users?

Some things I can think of:
Wb2 interface.           (I know there's no chance)
ASL file reqs            (slim)
Display database support
68040 optimized version  (it's only a compiler option,
                          no 060 optimizing cause there
                          simply aren't any compilers for
                          it)

Anything else folks?


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 03:33:40
Subject: Re: A pipe
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-28 12:48:40 EDT, you write:

>animate a lump moving down a pipe.

This is a real good challange. And unless I'm missing is something, (which is
highly possible) I think you are going to lose.

The method Jim Rix suggests has a couple of problems. First, it has to be a
straight pipe. Second if you move the "bump" any distance, the faces become
so elongated that the phong shading doesn't work too good and you see a
faceted pipe.

One method which may be a little better would be to model the pipe and the
bump seperately and move the bump over the pipe. This would not distort the
pipe's faces and would allow the bump to follow curved pipe. It also shows
the seam between the bump and pipe so it's not too realistic.

The lattice feature in truespace would allow the pipe to be textured or
brushmapped and the mapping to conform to the bump. Again maybe someone else
knows a trick to do this in Imagine.

Sorry, it's not much help, but it was a fun challange. Rather see more of
them then 10,000 gripes about the cost of WinImagine.

Rick


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 03:58:51
Subject: Re: Re:Glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello George, on Sep 28 you wrote:

> > On 21 Sep 1995, Mike Halvorson wrote:
> >
> > To that point, over the last six months, I have downloaded many names
> > from the IML, to my surprise over 40 percent of the people are not
> > registered users,
> >
> >   Mike Halvorson

> I think Mike making this assumption is not well thought out. I bought the
> book 3D Modeling Lab, and used to use the copy of Imagine that came with
> it. I have moved on to something else. I'm sure a lot of others have
> done the same. I still monitor the list for general animation tips
> though. But since I'm not in Mike's database, he thinks I'm a pirate.
>
> George

I think George has made a valid point here. I refer you to the guide I
received when I subscribed to this list.


Welcome to the Imagine Mailing List.

It is endorsed, supported and read by Steve and his
company Apex Software Publishing, as well as Impulse Inc.,
and a host of other Imagine/image-processing related/Amiga
vendors and luminaries as well as experts and users of
various popular rendering software packages on many platforms.

Naturally, while Imagine is the main thrust of the List, topics can vary
quite widely. 3D rendering in general- including how to achieve a
desired effect, algorithm variations, Imagine in comparison to other products,
video applications, what video hardware to buy, and Imagine interfacing
to other products are just a few of the subjects that have rumbled
through here!  :-) DCTV/Toaster/OpalVision/Real3D/Retina questions, Lightwave
comparisons (lotsa Toaster users),removeable media drives (for large animations)

reviews of Vista Pro and Scenery Animator (virtual landscapes generators),
new product rumors, are a few more of the offshoot discussions.

************

Now you can't tell me that Mike H read every message to ascertain whether
its' content was Imagine specific.

I read the LightWave list but I don't own LightWave, I just might want to
ask some questions to realise its' potential.

-- Bob

  :  Robert Byrne  : [e-mail] :
  : Amiga A3000/25 :  Ballina, NSW  Australia  :


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 04:18:39
Subject: Re: Unregistered user does not equal Piracy
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 06:33 PM 28/9/95, [e-mail] wrote:
>Another point is, if I did buy the latest version, why would I register?
>What does it give me that this list doesn't? If I have a question, I can
>post it here and receive a response from another interested person, not
>some dis-satified , bored answering dumb user questions, employee.
>Not to mention the fact that I live in Australia, so calling them up is out
>of the question.
>
>Darryl
>
>-- Via DLG Pro v1.0

Err, to get access to later versions, regular(ish) updates from Impulse on
what's in the pipeline, and so they know who's buying the program so they
can tailor it to their users.
And they have an e-mail address, so you don't have to phone. I've found their
tech support very helpful. Bored doesn't equal ignorant! Maybe you shouldn't
ask dumb questions? Or are you implying that other users, like myself, ask
dumb questions?


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 04:19:51
Subject: Re: A pipe
From:    Bill Boyce <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 02:35 PM 28/9/95 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>On Thu, 28 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine gave me a challenge (we are constantly having little
>> 'friendly competitions') -- he wanted me to animate a lump moving down a
>> pipe.  He was thinking of the way the pipe bulges in cartoons when something
>> moves through it, but I guess it could also be like a snake swallowing a rat
>> (or whatever).  Truespace (which he uses) can easily simulate this with a
>> 'deformation lattice', but I have no good ideas on how to do this in Imagine.

>>  Any ideas?
>>
>> Alan.
>>
>Here is an idea!
>
>Create a tube that has several sections in it.
>
>Move the section which are not on the ends toward one end of the tube.
>
>Use scale on the moved section to change their shape into the bulge.
>Make this a shape state Default.  Next, move the bulge down the tube
>where we make another state with the bulge at the other end.  To make the
>animation we only need to morph the two states.
>
>Jim Rix

Until you need to do it with a pipe with a bend in it.


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 05:14:17
Subject: Imagine for SGI
From:    Catherine A Tromanhauser <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I saw an ad in a magazine recently stating that Imagine would soon be
released for the SGI Indigo family of computers.  Does anybody know if
there's a version for the SGI Indy?

Sully



Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 05:17:17
Subject: Speed Test
From:    Catherine A Tromanhauser <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


It took 13 min and 14 sec on my A4000:18megs ram, 030-25mhz/68882-40mhz.

Sully


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 06:11:43
Subject: WinImagine tidbits . . .
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure how many of us are drooling over anything beyond 4.0 yet, but if
anyone's interested, here are a few morsels regarding Imagine for Windows
from Scott (Impulse):

>The basic story on the windows version is that it is going to be
>functionally the same as V4.0 - that isn't to say that there won't be
>more, but if more gets put in, consider it icing on the cake.  I would
>ilke to see JPEG support, but it probably won't get in unless we can find
>time to do it.  AVI support will most likely mean the same thing that FLC
>support does now - brushes/backdrops/backgrounds/editor backdrops,
>etc....

(regarding support of DirectDraw API in Win95)
>...The first windows version will not do anything that is Win95 exclusive.
 Sales of >Win95 haven't been high enough for us to commit to a win95 version
only.
>Besides, Were doing some offscreen bitmap stuff that isn't supported
>directly because the graphics were too slow in Window, /WinG, Win95 and
>WinNT.  The routines we're using now are faster than the DOS version.

Sounds like more good stuff to look forward to . . .


                                                               Cory

Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 06:31:12
Subject: Re: A pipe . . .
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if there would be any way to simply make a straight pipe, and use
something clever like the "ripple" effect to handle the bulging (I know it's
not quite designed that way). . . or perhaps the "grow" or "boing" effects
with some good camera work . . . just a thought--the deformation
tools/morphing approach is probably the best bet.



                                                     Cory

Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 06:52:13
Subject: Beta 4.0
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hiya,

 I am a Beta tester for Imagine 4.0, and just got a new version of it in
the mail so far mostly I have played with the blobs and doing all sorts of
stuff thats old too (they asked us to hammer old and new features).

Blobs : are way cool. this is one of the things im concenrating on playing
        with, in less then 10 mins I had a pilsbury(tm) dohboy model on
        my screen with exactly the types of output that i expected.

Heres some insight on how they work:

      First you add a real sphere. (blobs wont work with primative spheres.)
Then you add more spheres and group (yes you can group them in a parent/child
 way too!) , set up your basic shape. When ready (or while im building!) I
select the top most parent in group mode, and set the overall strength and
mesh size (how many polys per blob) for the entire object. Now the action
kicks in, in the perspective view I get a general picture of the finnished
blob object, while in the top, right, and front views I am still working
with spheres. I move a sphere, It updates the perspective view. there is a
setting for how fine/rough the perspective view will look too!

      Next after I have all blobs in position I start playing with the
strengths of the blobs, how they Pull (and even push) on one another.
in default state a blob sphere has a strength of 1.0. I have noticed that
if I want a blob thats father away to pull more then the ones around it
I add to its strength. To push with a blob is easy, just give it a negative
strength. by using a pushing sphere you can "make dents" or "deform" other
spheres in the blob.

      When all finnished tweeking the whole thing you select generate
mesh and it goes to work. Depending on how complex (number of spheres) or
how fine the mesh (number of polys per blob component) this can take a
little time (although the results are VERY impressive.)

      I am yet to play with more of the new stuff (you kinda can go
on with blobs for hours hehe) but i am working toward it. As a final
note this is a beta version i am working with the real version may have
a slightly or all together way of working, so dont take this as a tutorial
or anything. I just wanted you all to know the guys at impulse ARE working
and hard it seems :)

 Greg Knapp


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 07:48:26
Subject: Re:Glossy Brochure
From:    [e-mail] (Darryl Lewis)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > To that point, over the last six months, I have downloaded many names
from the
> > IML, to my surprise over 40 percent of the people are not registered

 KMW> I have seen IML users discreetly give the cold shoulder to obvious
 KMW> pirates of imagine. Sometimes we not discreet and tell the poster to
 KMW> by
 KMW> the program! 200$ to upgrade sounds fair enough to me if you want to
 KMW> run
 KMW> it on windows.
I'm most annoyed about Crowbar Mike and his comments. Don't give out cover
disks if you don't want unregistered users you stupid buggers. Don't send
out imagine without registration cards if you want people to register.
Offer somthing for them to want to register. Pathetic.

You'd have to pay me $200 to run it on windoze...eech!
PS. windoze '95 has naughty pictures built into it's code that can be
viewed when booting by a certain set of key presses. No wonder it's so
bloody big.
Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0

               #####\             _             /#####
               #( )# |          _( )__         | #( )#
               ##### |         /_    /         | #####
               #" "# |     ___m/I_ //_____     | #" "#
               # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O #
               #m.m# |   /" \ ///###\\\ / "\   | #m.m#
               #####/    ######/     \######    \#####

Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 09:25:29
Subject: Re: A pipe
From:    Paul Thompson <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >Create a tube that has several sections in it.
> >
> >Move the section which are not on the ends toward one end of the tube.
> >
> >Use scale on the moved section to change their shape into the bulge.
> >Make this a shape state Default.  Next, move the bulge down the tube
> >where we make another state with the bulge at the other end.  To make the
> >animation we only need to morph the two states.
> >
> Until you need to do it with a pipe with a bend in it.

Make a path in the shape that the pipe will follow.  Extrude a disk and
you have the pipe.  Create the bulge section as another object, careful
to use the same attributes as the pipe.  Have the bulge follow the path
in the action editor.

Paul


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 12:49:33
Subject: Re: Pipe
From:    gregory denby <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Making a bulge run along a pipe using Imagine isn't particularily hard,
just a little tedious.  From what I've seen, that particular trick isn't
at all difficult to do using TrueSpace.  So far as running bulges through
a pipe, TrueSpace probly has the edge.

At any rate, here's the routine I used in Imagine.

I extruded a circle along a J shaped path.   The result was about 500
units long, using 36 sections (a few more sections might have helped.)
I then made a 4_4_4 deformation tool which was large enough to fit
over three sections at a time.  Using standard scaling manipulations, I bulged t
he deform tool.  I created a default state for the "pipe."  Then I
repeatedly moved the deform tool along the pipe, creating states,
aligning the tool, etc.  That was the tedious part.  After about 15
minutes I had a pipe made of 16 states.  The resulting anim looked like
a blob galloping along the tube.  I suppose making 38 states would have
given a smoother flow.

I wouldn't want to do this every day, but it was no great sweat.  Right
off hand, I can't think of any ready way to automatically run the deform
tool along the path, which is what I suppose TrueSpace can do.

I did this with a 16M machine, so this method doesn't require Huuuge
amount of ram.  Obviously, the more points in the pipe, and the greater
number of states would make it look better, and eventually memory would
run out.

Using Imagine v3.3
Greg Denby

Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 14:09:38
Subject: Re: Create IT!!!
From:    Steven M Powell <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Robert Byrne wrote:

> Hello Red, on Sep 26 you wrote:
>
> > I have try to create a simple rendering to test speed
> >   with AMIGA & PC, only to see which processor
> >   should I take 68060 or PENTIUM ???????????????
>
> I've seen a message in comp.sys.amiga.graphics where someone had an 060 in
> their A4000/040 and was over the moon because he got a 2x speed increase
> when rendering in Imagine. Mind you, it may be a different story if/when
> software is optimised for an 060. In the meantime I'm going for a Pentium.
>
> -- Bob
>

Because of faster times on the PC platform, I am thinking along the same
line as you. Impulse says there is more PC users upgrading, So they are
targeting that platform for optimizing and development. So it seems to me
that Impulse is forcing me to leave the amiga for the pc, unless I drop
Imagine all together.
Since there aren't going to optimize or improve the amiga version anymore
I dont know what to do. I have been a faithfull customer of Impulse for
at least 7 years, and have enjoyed using there products (firecracker is
cool).
I use my 486dx2 at 66mhz sometimes to render, but the amiga enviroment is
so much better for me, mostly because of multitasking and Image
processing. If 4.0(amiga) is complete(not buggy), then I think I will
just use it for what it is and not be upgrading anymore, Since there will be
differences between the versions from now on.
No insult to Mike H. , but if it wasn't for people like me then there
would not ever have been a PC version. I said I wasn't going to be in the
"BITCH & MOAN" circle , but I kinda fell left out of future plans for
Imagine.

Well enough said. Mike, if this is were we part ways, then I would like to
say it has been great using your products, and I wish you the best in
Impulse's future. Who is to say that when I get a super fast pentiam,
That you will switch to X-WINDOWS ( or whatever ). It's kinda like WIN95
needing new versions   of software and hardware to take advantage of its NEW
features (i.e - autoconfig boards ).

                                            Render on
                                         Phoenix



Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 15:49:37
Subject: Re[2]: A pipe
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay okay,

I've got this (mostly) setup and it works.  I created a bulge that is based on a

sphere with the ends chopped-off; the ends flare so they create a smooth fillet

into the tube/path.

Only problem is that the bulge doesn't rotate to match the twisty path I
created.  How can I do this?  Thanks.

-Scott
[e-mail]

_______________________________________________________________________________

> >Create a tube that has several sections in it.
> >
> >Move the section which are not on the ends toward one end of the tube.
> >
> >Use scale on the moved section to change their shape into the bulge.
> >Make this a shape state Default.  Next, move the bulge down the tube
> >where we make another state with the bulge at the other end.  To make the
> >animation we only need to morph the two states.
> >
> Until you need to do it with a pipe with a bend in it.

Make a path in the shape that the pipe will follow.  Extrude a disk and
you have the pipe.  Create the bulge section as another object, careful
to use the same attributes as the pipe.  Have the bulge follow the path
in the action editor.

Paul



Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 16:40:28
Subject: Re: A pipe
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


here's one way to make a lump in a pipe. It's similar to Worley's
face-that-comes-out-of-a-plane:

Make a pipe (tube):

-------------

-------------



Make a lump:

___/~~~~\___

~~~\____/~~~
(the lump shall start and end at the same diameter as the pipe, and have a
smooth lump in the middle)

Put the axes of the two objs in the same place. Apply some texture to the pipe
and the lump, using EXACTLY the same size/pos/align on each one. After this
point, you must not move the lump's axis. To move the lump, select all its
points and move them without touching the axis. Naturally, don't use any texture

tacking. This way, the lump will resemble whatever section of pipe you place it

on and it will look like that section of pipe has the rabbit in it (whatever).

Move the lump to one end of the pipe, create state, move the lump to the other
end, create state, and state-morph the lump from one side to the other.

If you use a perfect sphere for the lump, it could probably turn corners, but
the transition between pipe and lump would be a little bit sharp.

Yes, I saw truespace's deformation stuff and yes, it was pretty fun, but since
only the three primitives can be used as deformers, I'd be afraid that all
animations are going to look "truespacey". I prefer the product where any
operation can be applied to infinite types of objects (like slice, applique,
etc.). It's all in the flexibility, Mr. Friend-of-Alan :-)


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 18:03:39
Subject: Re: Beta 4.0
From:    Steve Gardiner <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greg Knapp wrote :
>
>  I am a Beta tester for Imagine 4.0, and just got a new version of it in
> the mail so far mostly I have played with the blobs and doing all sorts of
> stuff thats old too (they asked us to hammer old and new features).
>
> Blobs : are way cool. this is one of the things im concenrating on playing
>         with, in less then 10 mins I had a pilsbury(tm) dohboy model on
>         my screen with exactly the types of output that i expected.
>
> Heres some insight on how they work:
>
>

Thanks for the info Greg, I'm sure many other IML subscribers will be really
interested in the new features of 4.0

I wonder how you became a beta tester and I wonder how many people other than
you, GreG Tsadillas, and (I suspect) Tom Granberg ?? (By the way Tom; Love
those pics on the Imagine 4.0 brochure... Ace!)

Cheers
--

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Steve Gardiner                   | --==>Sipping afternoon tea in London<==--|
|                                  | Visit London; Take in the sights, bask in|
|                                  |   it's rich history, pay 5 pounds for a  |
| Email : [e-mail] |      crummy half-melted ice-cream...     |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 20:28:12
Subject: Re: No sniveling again
From:    "Anime a day..." <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, DThompson wrote:

> I've noticed more whining on this list from people upset that the Amiga is
> no longer the platform of choice. GET A CLUE! Impulse didn't kill it and
> you're lucky that there are still programs that are being supported and
> upgraded. I too was a loyal Amiga supporter, but loyal doesn't mean stupid.
> Why are there people out there still trying to prove that anything on the
> Amiga even comes close to the speed of a Pentium. Quit wasting our time.
> You've already seen the benchmarks, give it a rest. Outside of the existing
> machines and some upgrades to 060's, the Amiga is dead. There, I said it,
> dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead! Sure it was a great machine, but it has
> been surpassed, and the Pentium line is just beginning, along with (Gasp!)
> NT workstations and SGI. Move on. You all sound like someones Grandfather,


   Just because something is faster doesn't mean the slower one doesn't
work anymore...   I doubt that everyone who bought Windows 95 can justify
that they really needed it; over what they had.

   SGI systems are pretty quick too, so why are you wasting your time and
money with a Pentium??

   But now, let me try to inject a new direction...

 Does anyone use Pixel Pro to convert form Imagine to Lightwave?? And if
so, do they find that the axis gets moved when changing from Imagine to
Lightwave??  Also, are there any other programs that convert objects form
one to another>??

 thanks

Bill


(We're finally getting Toaster 4.0... and I can't wait till Imagine 4.0
shows up in the mailbox!!)

 PS:  I think the Amiga evolved just right with my needs, back when I had
the time to play games, there were no better than Amiga games, and now
with my time spent on CGI, I have all the tools to take me till the next
gen of computing.. wher ARE those bio-chem memory chips?? ;'>





Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 21:45:39
Subject: No sniveling again
From:    [e-mail] (DThompson)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've noticed more whining on this list from people upset that the Amiga is
no longer the platform of choice. GET A CLUE! Impulse didn't kill it and
you're lucky that there are still programs that are being supported and
upgraded. I too was a loyal Amiga supporter, but loyal doesn't mean stupid.
Why are there people out there still trying to prove that anything on the
Amiga even comes close to the speed of a Pentium. Quit wasting our time.
You've already seen the benchmarks, give it a rest. Outside of the existing
machines and some upgrades to 060's, the Amiga is dead. There, I said it,
dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead! Sure it was a great machine, but it has
been surpassed, and the Pentium line is just beginning, along with (Gasp!)
NT workstations and SGI. Move on. You all sound like someones Grandfather,
unable to program a VCR and still insisting that the football players in his
day were real men and better players and could kick the asses of today's
players.

Well, no one will ever prove he's wrong because time has moved on and all
the players are dead, just like the Amiga. This doesn't mean that any
rational person doesn't know grandpa is full of it and has a problem dealing
with reality.

Maybe a little bed rest and some prunes will help Grandpa and the rest of
you. Then again, maybe it will just get you out of our hair.

Dave Thompson



Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 23:34:39
Subject: RE:RE:Create It...
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen G says, in part:
> Please don't take this as an attack against Amiga users or the
>System but it is not Impulse forcing people to move to the PC platform.  I
>blame should be placed anywhere it should be on Commodore Management and t
>inability to market their product efficiently.  Fact is Every other 3D com
>in the Amiga 3D market has been moving to the PC world except Aladdin.  Im
>sure Impulse would love to develop for Amiga if it would make them money.
>Loyalty is an admirable quality and should be expected.  However if it
>doesn't put food on the table, can you really expect a small company to
>continue developing the product?

Hear Hear!  If Impulse would trust me with the source code (grin) to the
Windows Imagine,  I'd bet it is modular enough, with enough isolation from
the rendering/support routines and interface/graphics routines that it could
be made Intuition Style Guide compliant, or some such similar result.  The
problem they may face, is that the cost of writing such routines could
overshadow the possible revenues it would bring in.  Imagine is fantasatic,
so is Amiga (personal opinion, no wars please) but Impulse is a company, and
as such MUST make decisions based upon projected results.  If Amiga users
don't register, or don't upgrade, then the ONLY THING Impulse has to judge
the potential market for future Amiga versions upon is an apparent lack of
interest from the Amiga community, whether or not that is actually the case.

AMIGA IMAGINE LOVERS:  If you want to push Impulse to continue Amiga Support,
and make improvements on the Amiga version, YOU must convince them that as
a corporation it would be worth their development time and money to do so:
the #1 most visible form of this is upgrades and registration, bitching on
the IML that Impulse is "abandoning" Amiga is heart-wrenching, possibly true,
but accomplishes little (granted, Mike H & co see enough out here, that will
factor in, but not strong).  I've just gotten a new job, and guess what?
Upgrade, with (for certain!) registration, even if I have to write the
registration info on a napkin for lack of a card, is in my near-term
financial plans, ahead of many other things I actually NEED, not just desire.
My 2 cents, if you wanna flame or bitch, go ahead, but keep it off the list,
this is the IML, IMAGINE!!!
Joel NewKirk
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 23:34:55
Subject: Re: Create IT!!!
From:    [e-mail] (Stephen Gifford)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


>Because of faster times on the PC platform, I am thinking along the same
>line as you. Impulse says there is more PC users upgrading, So they are
>targeting that platform for optimizing and development. So it seems to me
>that Impulse is forcing me to leave the amiga for the pc, unless I drop
>Imagine all together.
>Since there aren't going to optimize or improve the amiga version anymore
>I dont know what to do. I have been a faithfull customer of Impulse for
>at least 7 years, and have enjoyed using there products (firecracker is
>cool).

I can certainly understand how you would be frustrated at the possibility of no
future development of the Amiga version after all of these years.  Especially
for all of those people who have been with Impulse from the beginning.  I can't
really sympathize fully since I was never on the Amiga platform.  However if you

read the brochure for 4.0, it clearly says that the future of Amiga Imagine is
dependant on how many Amiga users upgrade.  Right now the ratio is 3 to 1 PC to
Amiga users.  Please don't take this as an attack against Amiga users or the
System but it is not Impulse forcing people to move to the PC platform.  If the
blame should be placed anywhere it should be on Commodore Management and their
inability to market their product efficiently.  Fact is Every other 3D company
in the Amiga 3D market has been moving to the PC world except Aladdin.  Im
sure Impulse would love to develop for Amiga if it would make them money.
Loyalty is an admirable quality and should be expected.  However if it
doesn't put food on the table, can you really expect a small company to
continue developing the product?

I know the Amiga is a great machine, but Windows 95 has multitasking and so
does Windows NT both of which are capable of running on very fast platforms.
I am not trying to start a PC is better debate.  Fact is every person
regardless of platform is faced with buying a new machine every couple of
years to keep up with the current software.  When I purchased Imagine I
bought it when it first
came out for the PC.  I spent $450 to get 2.0 from some retailer out in CA,
because they were the only ones I could find that had it.  Less than 2
versions later people could buy the same program for $30 bucks or get it for
free in a magazine.  I am not complaining, simply making a point that
nothing is truly fair when it comes to the reality of life.

By the way if anyone has any comments on my 2 contributions to the brochure
I would appreciate hearing them.  Unfortunately they cropped my name on the
Clock so that no one can see it and the other Pic the Coke Sculpture is to small

to see to see my name.

Like I said, please don't take this as an attack on Amiga or it's users.
Just my perspective on the situation.

Stephen G.


Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 23:35:11
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A pipe
From:    Paul Thompson <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> I've got this (mostly) setup and it works.  I created a bulge that is based on
 a
> sphere with the ends chopped-off; the ends flare so they create a smooth fille
t
> into the tube/path.
>
> Only problem is that the bulge doesn't rotate to match the twisty path I
> created.  How can I do this?  Thanks.

I haven't had a chance to check this out, but try "conform object to path".

Paul

Date:    Friday, 29 September 1995 23:56:44
Subject: Re: Imagine for SGI
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-29 04:36:47 EDT, you write:

>Subj:        Imagine for SGI
>Date:        95-09-29 04:36:47 EDT
>From:        [e-mail] (Catherine A Tromanhauser)
>To:  [e-mail] (Imagine Mailing List)
>
>
>I saw an ad in a magazine recently stating that Imagine would soon be
>released for the SGI Indigo family of computers.  Does anybody know if
>there's a version for the SGI Indy?
>
>Sully
>
>
>

Last time I checked the SGI Indy is just a "baby" Indigo. Same processor
family. My guess is if it works on one, it'l work on all SGI MIPS powered
machines.

Falko

Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 00:50:21
Subject: Re: Bye, for now...
From:    Torgeir Holm <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 10-Sep-95 16:03:58, Perry Lucas wrote:

>You do know that the Air Force is connected to the Net?  You can probably
>get your email forwarded to a military email address...

We don't get this option during the first eight weeks here in norway, but it's
all been taken care of :) I'll still be on the list, just not as often as I'd
like to...


Torge!r

Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 02:26:59
Subject: You made that clock???
From:    Fred Aderhold <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 05:34 PM 9/29/95 -0500, you wrote:

>By the way if anyone has any comments on my 2 contributions to the brochure
>I would appreciate hearing them.  Unfortunately they cropped my name on the
>Clock so that no one can see it and the other Pic the Coke Sculpture is to
small
>to see to see my name.

Wow! I saw your clock in the 3.0 brochure, and that's what sold me on
Imagine in the first place. Photorealistic perfection! You should've gotten
a commission. :)

I really like the Coke bottle too, do you have more of these on a web page
somewhere? You should!

So, you're the guy to ask -

When you render a still, how to you get rid of the anti-aliasing jaggies?
What resolution are the original pictures? I've noticed that 1024x768 looks
better that 640x480, but how high do you have to go?

Again, great work...

--------------------------------------------
Fred Aderhold
[e-mail]
http://www.netrix.net/users/fredster

Daddy, what does formatting drive C mean?
--------------------------------------------


Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 03:32:22
Subject: Star Wars objects
From:    Paul Thompson <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I need to find some Star Wars objects.  Hopefully, too, someone has
created a StormTrooper object.  Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!
Paul


Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 03:56:35
Subject: Re: TestSpeed
From:    [e-mail] (Robert Byrne)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Stephen, on Sep 29 you wrote:

> >> Re: Speed Test
> >>
> >> 640 x 480 Full Trace Mode
> >> 7min. 58sec.
> >>
> >> 486-DX4-100  32 Meg Ram.
> >> PCI Bus, w PCI Video Card
> >> No preferences were changed to optimize render.

RB> >This won't be a fair comparison if the resolutions are different for the
  > >Amiga and PC. My sub-project was set at 640x512.

> 640 x 512 is not a standard aspect ratio for the PC.  640 x 480 is.  I guess
> I could try and do it though.
>
> s.g.

My point is that it does'nt matter what is standard, only that the
resolution is the same for both platforms. The person who supplied the
original test project probably just selected a Hires Lace preset instead of
typing 640x480 into the sub-project box. He could have made it 800x600 so
long as it's the same for everyone.

-- Bob

Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 10:27:14
Subject: Draco
From:    [e-mail] (The Prophet)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know if Imagine will run on the Draco?
It claims to be about 80% compatible.  If the soft
is system friendly & doesn't bang hardware then it
should work.  450MIPs sounds promising.

Jaeson K.
 ____            ____            _           _
( |  \          ( /  \          ( )       _ / )
 )|   )_   __    /   /_   _  __  /   __  ( X_)
( |  /~ \ /\_)  /---~/ ) / )/  )/~\ /\_)  / _
 )ll/  l/ \__ (/   (/   (_//__//  / \__  (___)
(____________)        (___/        (___)

Jaeson Koszarsky                  Amiga 3000+
----------------                  -----------
[e-mail]              68040/30Mhz
[e-mail]                24Megs-1GIG
[e-mail]            OS3.1

Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 12:51:41
Subject: Re: No sniveling again
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, DThompson wrote:

> I've noticed more whining on this list from people upset that the Amiga is
> no longer the platform of choice. GET A CLUE! Impulse didn't kill it and
> you're lucky that there are still programs that are being supported and
> upgraded. I too was a loyal Amiga supporter, but loyal doesn't mean stupid.
> Why are there people out there still trying to prove that anything on the
> Amiga even comes close to the speed of a Pentium. Quit wasting our time.
> You've already seen the benchmarks, give it a rest. Outside of the existing
> machines and some upgrades to 060's, the Amiga is dead. There, I said it,
> dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead! Sure it was a great machine, but it has
> been surpassed, and the Pentium line is just beginning, along with (Gasp!)
> NT workstations and SGI. Move on. You all sound like someones Grandfather,
> unable to program a VCR and still insisting that the football players in his
> day were real men and better players and could kick the asses of today's
> players.

> text cut <
>
> Dave Thompson

It seems that this mailing list has definitely turned from Imagine help,
to CPU whining/bashing.  I for one would not mind if everyone just STOPPED
complaining about the price.  No matter how much you complain about the
price of Imagine 4.0, or the lack of support for the Amiga, it really
won't change Impulse's decision. They've quoted the price, they've laid
down the law about Amiga support, what else is there?

I have personally gotten a LOT of information off of this mailing list
that has already helped me with my 3-d rendering beginning projects.  As
a beginner I really enjoy reading professionals (or just enthusiasts)
advice on Imagine.  However, if the mailing list continues to be such a
"whiner" area, I may have to unsubscribe for a few weeks until it passes.
I really hate logging on and seeing 30 new messages every day, and only
about 5 of them being related to help on Imagine.

Damon


Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 14:30:38
Subject: Re: Create IT!!! (fwd)
From:    Steve Gardiner <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen Gifford wrote :

>
>By the way if anyone has any comments on my 2 contributions to the brochure
>I would appreciate hearing them.  Unfortunately they cropped my name on the
>Clock so that no one can see it and the other Pic the Coke Sculpture is to smal
l
>to see to see my name.
>
>Like I said, please don't take this as an attack on Amiga or it's users.
>Just my perspective on the situation.
>
>Stephen G.
>

Stephen,

I love the Coke Sculpture as I have dloaded the orginal pic from CI$ a few
months ago and me and my mates at work have marvelled at it for all that time.
I also downloaded the spark group from CI$ and used it in a image for a
presentation depicting the telephone wires between two telephone handsets.
Many Thanks !! I liked the Carriage Clock but feel the glass looks a bit thin,
but that may just be the print process losing the detail. The gold and the
wood grain look fabulous, though !!

Great work Stephen !

Cheers
--

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Steve Gardiner                   | --==>Sipping afternoon tea in London<==--|
|                                  | Visit London; Take in the sights, bask in|
|                                  |   it's rich history, pay 5 pounds for a  |
| Email : [e-mail] |      crummy half-melted ice-cream...     |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 15:25:00
Subject: Imagine musings
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone posted a message with comments attributed to Mike H. aboutWindows 95 sup
port. I lost the message, but if I remember it righthe said that Win Imagine wou
ld not be written specifically forWin '95 because the sales number weren't high
enough. This can'tbe right. I mean, what, sales are hovering in the 20 million m
ark aft=era month. How many functioning Amigas are there? Maybe 3 million?Was he
 saying someone who would pay $1600 for Win Imagine optimizedfor Win '95 wouldn'
t pay $90 to upgrade to Win '95?I think someone was pulling our chain here. That
 doesn't sound likeMike.One another note. I finally did get my "glossy brochure"
, and Ilooked all over it. I was disappointed to see no mention of the popupacti
on bar in the Stage editor. Also, no mention of grouped objectediting/manipulati
on in Stage. If I remember right, those features we=resupposed to be in 3.0. Hav
e they been shelved for 4.0 too? Will theybe available in Win Imagine?No flame.
Just wondering if they got axed for some reason. I reallywould like to be able to move around individual parts of a groupedobject in stage then
be able to key frame the changes.   /------------------------------           __
_   ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der Sommen                     / __  /__/ /__/  /
_   \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.                     /___/ / \  /  /  /     / \  |
[e-mail]     HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |           "
Blackouts make for nice breaks in the day"   \__________________________________
___________________________--- =FE InterNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca
 - [phone]

Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 15:50:00
Subject: Jaggies
From:    [e-mail] (Mike Vandersommen)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> From: Fred Aderhold <[e-mail]>->-> So, you're the guy to ask -->->
 When you render a still, how to you get rid of the anti-aliasing j=agg-> What r
esolution are the original pictures? I've noticed that 1024x=768-> better that 6
40x480, but how high do you have to go?Fred, you probably already tried this, bu
t next time, before yourender a final, set the EDLE level to a lower number than
 thedefault 22 in preferences. It will take longer to render, but you sho=uldhav
e fewer jaggies.I should have mentioned that to you before....but forgot. :)   /
------------------------------           ___   ___  ___   ___  | Mike van der So
mmen                     / __  /__/ /__/  /_   \ /  | Santa Barbara, Ca.
             /___/ / \  /  /  /     / \  | [e-mail]
     HAUS BBS (805-683-1388)  |           "Blackouts make for nice breaks in the
 day"   \_____________________________________________________________--- =FE In
terNet - GraFX Haus BBS - Santa Barbara, Ca - [phone]

Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 16:12:30
Subject: RE:Beta tester
From:    Granberg Tom <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi
Yes, I become a beta tester realy by accident when I was over to visit them in
august. I come to be good friends with Scott and we talked about lots of cool
shit to put in Imagine. I was told by Mike and Scott that they didnt want to
have to many beta testers, due to the following up, witch will be to much work
for them if they get to many.
Some of the new things here are:
BLOBS- already well known, I guess
SMOOTH TOOL- witch reminds me of Lightwaves "metaform"-Very cool
Smooth fracture
Auto load of backdrops in the perspective window
Fx in detail
Delete file- Be able to the delete files from detail
Soft shadows- Ultra cool- (But a bit slow)

There are some more features as well, but I havent got the time to play with
them yet.

Later
Ps. Thanks for all the nice sayings about my pic's in the brochure
Tom Granberg



Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 16:40:15
Subject: Re: Glass making . . .
From:    Damon LaCaille <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmmm, I'm pretty new to Imagine, but I'd imagine (no pun intended, heh)
that using two glass layers might not be the right thing. How about
making a single glass layer with a wider thickness, and a higher index of
refraction?

[=====================================================================]
[      Damon L. LaCaille     |  A3000 @ 25MHz 10MB RAM / 540MB HD     ]
[=====================================================================]
[ Email - [e-mail]    | If you're not making 50 mistakes a day ]
[ WWW  - Be watching for my  |   then you're not trying hard enough!  ]
[        WWW home page here! |-=* IMAGINE - Why use anything else? *=-]
[=====================================================================]


On Sat, 30 Sep 1995 [e-mail] wrote:

> Could anyone give me a hand on how to make a "thick glass" jar?  I'm having a
> tough time getting it to look convincing.  I have a two-layer thing now, with
> the inner layer being simply a scaled down version of the outer layer.  I
> assigned both layers the typical glass attributes, and I gave each layer a
> refraction index of 1.05 . . . it's close, but has anyone else had better
> luck with a different trick?  I'd appreciate any help offered . . .
>
>                                                                  Cory
>

Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 19:57:43
Subject: Re: Imagine musings
From:    [e-mail]


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 95-09-30 12:46:15 EDT, you write:

>Someone posted a message with comments attributed to Mike H. about
>Windows 95 support. I lost the message, but if I remember it right
>he said that Win Imagine would not be written specifically for
>Win '95 because the sales number weren't high enough. This can't
>be right. I mean, what, sales are hovering in the 20 million mark after
>a month. How many functioning Amigas are there? Maybe 3 million?
>Was he saying someone who would pay $1600 for Win Imagine optimized
>for Win '95 wouldn't pay $90 to upgrade to Win '95?

Well I certainly hope it is optimized for win95.  I run AcadR13 which we were
using under WFWG 3.11 as a win32 app.  The speed increase when we started
running it under win95 was very very noticable and I understand that when
Acad becomes fully Win95 compliant with the c4 patch it will be faster still
along with allowing longer file names.  It would really not make any sense to
write WinImagine to run under windoze 3.1 and loose the speed that 95 can
bring it.  Not to mention, that if it is not written correctly it could run
slower on a P6 when they come out later this year.

Bob............



Date:    Saturday, 30 September 1995 22:44:56
Subject: What will happen?
From:    Carsten Bach <[e-mail]>


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't know if it is just me, who haven't understood the mails the last
weeks. But will there be new versions of Imagine for the Amiga, or even
the DraCo. With or without new interface. And will it be possible to get
a instant upgrade after version 4.0, if there comes anything for the
Amiga. Or is the Amiga abandoned?


Arne Voigt
Copenhagen Denmark

Hoping for a 040 optimized Imagine!